Posted on 05/23/2009 7:53:11 AM PDT by Siobhan7
Marysecretary, I love you.
And I love you, too, Joya.
I would love to be like Quix, LOL. Sticks and stones, ya know.
So, nearly all non-Catholic Christians profess the Nicene Creed, but they DON'T BELIEVE IT?
The Nicene Creed is VERY CLEAR that there is ONE Baptism for forgiveness of sin.
The baptism for sin takes place AFTER the person has declared Christ as his or her saviour. You are saved and then baptized. The act of baptism itself doesn’t save. Your putting your faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ is what saves you, wagglebee.
At the time the Nicene Creed was adopted infant baptism had been the norm for centuries. It is still the norm for Catholics, Orthodox and nearly ALL other Christians.
I told you I didn’t have a problem with a baby being baptized. It’s when you believe that baby or person is saved BECAUSE of baptism that we part company.
Do you or do you not profess the Nicene Creed?
OH DEAR!
Lie down for a while and see if that urge will go away!
What a . . . frightful prospect! One of me is enough loose in the world!
You do a much more redemptive version of parts of me quite well as it is.
BLESSED BE THE NAME AND WORD OF THE LORD.
***Why would it take someone YEARS to admit they are a Baptist?
What is the explanation for such a thing?***
I assume that it is the accumulated guilt and shame for possessing a driving urge to go from one church to another in the hope that the overturning of one rock in the road will lead to a different outcome than the overturning of another rock beside it.
***Then why do nearly all non-Catholic Christians include the Nicene Creed as part of their worship service? The Nicene Creed explicitly states that baptism IS salfivic.***
Forgive me if I remember incorrectly, Dr. E., but I believe that you once instructed me that the Nicene Creed in your church although recited, is more of a suggestion than doctrine. Can you confirm or deny this?
***The baptism for sin takes place AFTER the person has declared Christ as his or her saviour. You are saved and then baptized. The act of baptism itself doesn’t save.
At the time the Nicene Creed was adopted infant baptism had been the norm for centuries. It is still the norm for Catholics, Orthodox and nearly ALL other Christians.***
When you are your own Pope, nothing else matters. The only thing driving one’s beliefs are the contents of one’s stomach, the softness of one’s bed, the condition of the weather, the emotions of one’s spouse, or the outcome of the horse race at the track.
If that is the case, a few questions come to mind:
1. Is it still called a creed? Because by definition a creed is doctrinal.
2. Are other portions of the worship service considered suggestive only?
3. Why not remove a suggestive profession and replace it with one which actually is doctrinal?
4. Which specific Calvinist document (Westminster Confession of Faith, Institutes, etc.) declares the Nicene Creed to be suggestive rather than doctrinal?
I only ask because I was completely unaware that Calvinism had ever professed the Nicene Creed to be anything other than doctrine.
I always find it ironic when anti-Catholics say things like, “only Catholics believe [fill in the blank],” and then have absolutely no explanation when they are told that not only did the Reformers retain these beliefs, but so do most present-day Protestants. It’s also quite amusing to hear them explain how the Bible is the literal Word of God, BUT there are portions that they reject because our Lord was only speaking “figuratively”. And my favorite is the absurd theory that Jesus Christ would occasionally switch between Greek and Aramaic for the sole purpose of ridiculing and confusing His Apostles.
The OPC.org page on confession and catechisms do not mention the Creeds. They have four sections:
Preface
Westminster Confession of Faith
Larger Catechism
Shorter Catechism
On the web page http://www.opc.org/WhatIsReformedFaith.html there is no mention of the Nicene Creed.
I will leave it to Dr. E. to explain the lack of prominence of the Nicene Creed in her faith.
However, the OPC website also says this:
“The Orthodox Presbyterian Church stands in the line of what are commonly called the Ecumenical Creeds: the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Creed formulated at the Council of Chalcedon. The Reformation was not a departure from these Creeds so much as a return to them. For example, the Heidelberg Catechism (which has always been honored by Presbyterian and Reformed believers) is in large part a restatement of the Apostles’ Creed according to its original meaning. And other Reformed Creeds, Catechisms, and Confessions do much the same thing. They restate the faith enshrined in the Ecumenical Creeds in such a way as to exclude error and misunderstanding.”
http://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=17
***I always find it ironic when anti-Catholics say things like, “only Catholics believe [fill in the blank],” and then have absolutely no explanation when they are told that not only did the Reformers retain these beliefs, but so do most present-day Protestants. ***
Even the late and unlamented Luther venerated Mary and believed in the transfiguration. Calvin, on the other hand, came up with his own pseudo sham and inconsistent theologies, so much so that before he died, there were already half a dozen main splits as well as countless other minor ones. The theologies of men versus the theology of Jesus the Christ.
They claim that the Bible can only be understood by the Holy Spirit’s help (true) and then they claim that their rendition of the Bible is not only true but the only true one (false on both counts).
***However, the OPC website also says this:
“The Orthodox Presbyterian Church stands in the line of what are commonly called the Ecumenical Creeds: the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Creed formulated at the Council of Chalcedon. The Reformation was not a departure from these Creeds so much as a return to them. For example, the Heidelberg Catechism (which has always been honored by Presbyterian and Reformed believers) is in large part a restatement of the Apostles’ Creed according to its original meaning. And other Reformed Creeds, Catechisms, and Confessions do much the same thing. They restate the faith enshrined in the Ecumenical Creeds in such a way as to exclude error and misunderstanding.”
http://www.opc.org/qa.html?question_id=17***
You beat me to the punch, sir. No doubt the good Dr. E. has a suitable explanation forthcoming and has not left town under the cloak of night.
To this day, traditional Lutheran beliefs about the Blessed Mother are nearly identical to what Catholics believe.
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