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To: sten
the innovator would be microsoft, without whom apple would have vanished in the late 90s

You are swallowing the Microsoft face-saving MYTH...

Apple was NOT bailed out by Microsoft. Microsoft essentially LOST a copyright and patent infringement lawsuit brought by Apple and as part of the court approved, three interlocking settlement agreements (which you can now read on-line) Microsoft had to pay $150,000,000 to Apple (it was handled as a purchase of non-voting, preferred stock), license certain MS patents to Apple in perpetuity at no cost, and continue developing and marketing MS Office for Mac for an additional five years. For its part of the agreements, Apple agreed to drop its suits, license certain copyrights to MS in exchange for fees for a period of five years, and include Internet Explorer for Mac on its OS distribution disks along with Netscape for five years.

"Later testimony in the U.S. D.O.J. Microsoft anti-trust trial revealed that, at the time, Apple was threatening Microsoft with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit over the allegedly stolen code, and in return Bill Gates was threatening with the cancellation of Office for the Mac. [2] [3] In August 1997, Apple and Microsoft announced a settlement deal. Apple would drop all current lawsuits, including all lingering issues from the "Look & Feel" lawsuit and the "QuickTime source code" lawsuit, and agree to make Internet Explorer the default browser on the Macintosh unless the user explicitly chose the bundled Netscape browser. In return, Microsoft agreed to continue developing Office, Internet Explorer, and various developer tools and software for the Mac for the next 5 years, and purchase $150 million of non-voting Apple stock. The companies also agreed to mutual collaboration on Java technologies, and to cross-license all existing patents, and patents obtained during the five-year deal, with one another."—Wikipedia
At the time of this so-called saving of Apple, Apple had over 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS in CASH the bank and more in liquid assets and had debts of under $70 million. Apple was not at risk of going under.

"Apple, which ended its third quarter with $1.2 billion in cash, will use the additional $150 million to invest in its core markets of education and creative content, Anderson said. He added that the company expects to gain a higher percentage of its revenues from software and services in these core markets in the future."CNET NEWS, August 6, 1997

They had had just ONE quarter of loss, two quarters previous to the settlement, but were already back in the black. Apple had already turned the corner into profitability before these agreements were inked. ALL of this was reported in contemporaneous news articles when it occurred. It was several years later that the "spin" was started about how Microsoft had magnanimously "Saved Apple from bankruptcy."

and yes, you can get a similarly equipped PC for about $600. of course, if microsoft installed all that free software on the box, like apple does, then there would be nonstop complaints about anti-competitive practices

Look again at the chart I posted from Fortune Magazine about the comparison they did between all-in-one computers (a market in which Apple competes) and tell me that you can get a "similarly equipped PC for about $600. Apple simply does not compete in the bottom basement bargain bins. They have chosen not to.

Microsoft is NOT a computer maker.. they are a software company. The hardware makers are completely free to add whatever equivalent "free" software they choose on their boxes... even Microsoft's... but MS cannot, because of their conviction for anti-competitive practices, compel them to do so.

23 posted on 04/01/2009 1:40:02 AM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker
Microsoft is NOT a computer maker.. they are a software company. The hardware makers are completely free to add whatever equivalent "free" software they choose on their boxes... even Microsoft's... but MS cannot, because of their conviction for anti-competitive practices, compel them to do so.

Just a general observation. Anti-monopoly legislation originally came about in response to Ford Motor Company's practice of trying to control every aspect of the production of their cars. In this respect, Apple appears to be arguably much closer to having a monopolistic business model than Microsoft.

29 posted on 04/01/2009 4:00:43 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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