Posted on 02/21/2009 6:30:20 PM PST by JoeProBono
In January 2009, I had the distinct pleasure to meet one of the greats of Ufology. Kathleen Marden is the niece of Betty Hill, who was involved with her husband Barney, in a highly publicized abduction on September 20, 1961. The factor that makes this unique is that the abductors brought their victims on board a spaceship, the likes of which defied imagination.
Betty and Barney Hills account is documented in the well written book CAPTURED! The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience by Kathy Marden and Ufologist and original Roswell crash researcher, Stanton T. Friedman, MSc, so I will not try to duplicate efforts. Instead, I will refer you to their work for the historical account.
This abduction by alien entities originated several notable firsts. This would become the most publicized alien abduction in history to date, due in part to the amazing level of detail that has become known. This account also benefitted from the believability of Betty and Barney. Never were there two people who shunned the spotlight more than the Hills. The Hills were leaders in their community and well-respected. Betty was a social worker, and both were members of the NAACP. Barney was passionate about his civil rights work, having contributed to the movement as a member of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission in his home state of New Hampshire.
Another first would be the use of hypnosis in the treatment of the Hills to uncover their hidden memories. Contrary to some claims, the Hills did not immediately remember everything that had occurred. The treatment was undertaken by Dr. Benjamin Simon, who was the first to theorize and later prove the validity of hypnotherapy in the treatment of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder among war veterans. This was not the only factor that made Dr. Simon the perfect person to treat the Hills. Dr. Simon did not believe in the extraterrestrial hypothesis, the belief that some unidentified flying objects are in reality extraterrestrial spacecraft piloted by alien entities, what some derisively refer to as "little green men". By believing there to be another causal factor to their condition, the Hills were not "led" by the doctor into erroneous memory recollections. The introduction of Dr. Simon lent to the validity of the account of abduction by aliens.
Happens all the time! :-)
We were coming back from the Needles district in the Canyonlands in Utah in 2006. Literally out in the middle of nowhere. Not another car on this road. Pitch black. We got out to look at the sky. We could see ALL the stars. I'm not a big UFO person--I would probably classify myself as agnostic on the subject, but I kept thinking this would be the perfect place for an abduction. It was definitely spooky out there but so wonderful too. Lots of stars but no UFO's that we noticed.
I remember hearing about the case you are referring. Didn't they make a movie about that too?
Sorry, some names it’s easier to tell than others. After I posted “his”, it just struck me to check out your profile. My buddy, TXBubba, had that happen to her all the time too when she was a more frequent poster on FR.
Duh you mention the movie in your post. I’m getting tired and not comprehending what I read.
I’ve used the name since about 98 or 99. It’s from another group and I started out as Deborah Jo. That got shortened to DJ so now no one knows “who” I am. lol
See I was thinking Disc Jockey. :)
Most people do. My Mom called me DJ but Grandma always used our whole names, first and middle.
My step mother and my current neighbor came from that area of AZ with the Travis Walton case.
And, I’ve met and talked with Travis.
Exceedingly believable. His reputation was as a solid sort of fellow not given to such fantasies.
YEA!
thx.
There's no such thing as a lie detector test. If you're referring to a polygraph test, it doesn't actually detect lies but simply records a person's physiological reactions to a particular question. That's why results of a polygraph test aren't admissible in court, because they aren't reliable in determining whether or not a person is lying.
When you try to be too clever with words, your writing comes across as sounding artificial and forced. Just my opinion.
You really want to believe that????
Mack is not even a scientist. He does know how to sell millions of books to gullible, naive, simple-minded people.
I appreciate the input.
Maybe if I need it to be polished on such scores I’ll ponder that more. . . . or ask for your proofing!
Much of that is . . . deliberately . . . stilted in the sense that I’m trying to straddle a fence as well as be slightly tweakky . . . even derisive of a perspective, opinion, position, seeming degree of ignorance . . .
I don’t really wish to insult persons, per se . . . but our UFO threads get SUCH HORRENDOUS ASSAULTS [and of course my sanity etc. which is of less consequence] . . . shutting down reasonable dialogue that more than 150 ping list members would PREFER to be able to engage in without such hogwash . . .
so, I try and insult perspectives, ideas, opinions without actually insulting personhood. I don’t know that I always succeed.
It is somewhat artificial. From where I come from here in the Four Corners area . . . telling it like it is has been a pretty long tradition—also where my ancestors were from in Texas and OKlahoma.
Yet—both because I PREFER to be kind . . . as well as FR’s policies and standards . . . I try to moderate that tradition . . . and also the tradition of my very fiesty, zingy mother . . . who’s jokes rarely were simple humor without a barb.
So, it’s no great surprise that such a fence straddling mish mash comes off artificial and forced. A big part of me would be more inclined to let her rip and let the chips fall where they may—when writing in such a mode in response to rabidly hostile and derisive naysayers—of whom I’ve typically had a chronic fill of.
Yet, it’s my ping list. And I feel some responsibility to the list to at least let the naysayers know their attitudes and perspectives of derision; ignorance and hostility are not really all that brilliant and not really all that welcome.
In terms of the example you cited . . . I was deliberately trying to be somewhat obfuscating as well as feisty. That’s a tone and structure I can take more than occasionally on such threads. Not saying it’s right or even that it accomplishes what I’d like it to—but it is me.
I could have easily said
It must be threatening to consider what a huge paradigm shift might be looming because of the existential aspects of the UFO phenomena.
But that would have been too straight-forward and innocuous.
imho . . . my 2 cents . . . at this latening hour! LOL.
I do appreciate the thoughtfulness of your input. Please don’t hesitate again should the mood strike you.
Another first would be the use of hypnosis in the treatment of the Hills to uncover their hidden memories.
____________________
Hypnotherapy, where people find out that they were abducted by UFO’s, that their Sunday School teaching parents were slaughtering infants weekly in the basement of their homes in Satanic rituals, and that their parents sexually molested them every day of their lives until they were 18 years old and never remembered a whiff of it until they were 25 and met a “hypnotherapist”.
The people who practice this are either idiots or pure evil. Some unwitting adults having normal problems wound up in the clutches of these pseudo-scientists. Many “abductees” are still under the clutches of these evil, evil people. If I recall even Roseanne Barr under “hypnotherapy” suddenly found out her parents were raping her daily, in stark contrast to the reality presented by the rest of her family.
I would have to think hard to find people more evil people than these charlatans implanting false memories of childhood abuse, Satanic rituals, UFO abductions, etc. into weak/confused people’s minds.
John Mack’s credentials were quite high enough for Harvard as well as for anyone who knew him and for most folks who read him.
Your assertions still sound like the rantings of someone who’s mostly ill-informed and certainly devoid of any fair-mindedness on the topic.
You seem to be ignorant about the multiple cases where women were pregnant . . . near the end of their first tri-mester . . .
HAD BEEN TO THEIR GYNECOLOGIST THAT DAY—SEEN THE BABY ON ULTRASOUND ETC. HEARD THE HEART-BEAT ETC.
[this, of course, after an abduction experience 3 months earlier where there was some sort of implantation, forced sex, instrument implantation etc.—sometimes involving the laproscopic sort of instrument you are so derisive about]
That night . . . an abduction experience . . . sometimes vividly remembered WITHOUT HYPNOSIS, sometimes seeming like a nightmare . . . sometimes awakening with just a foreboding feeling and a sense that they’d lost their baby.
Then going again the following day back to their gynecologist and finding that there was no baby in their womb.
I’d love to see you try and convince any one of those women that it was all a figment of their imagination—especially within reach of their fingernails.
BTW, John Mack’s procedures in his research on the topic were quite solidly scientific in the best traditions of such.
I’m beginning to think that you wouldn’t know “scientific” if it bit you in the buns.
BTW, who deluded you with the deception that a TYPE II ERROR was less deadly than the TYPE I ERROR you seem so obsessively bending over doing back flips to avoid????
If you knew a shred of whatever about science as applied to this topic as you seem to imply that you do . . . then you’d KNOW EMPHATICLALY that it is impossible to lean so far over backwards to avoid a TYPE I ERROR
WITHOUT MAKING IT VIRTUALLY CERTAIN THAT YOU FALL PREY TO A VERY COSTLY TYPE II ERROR.
But then, you’re not really a scientist either, are you.
That simplistic assessment is not true to reality.
IT DEPENDS TONS ON HOW THE SESSION IS MANAGED.
—HOW DOES THE SEQUENCE OF OPEN-ENDED, NON-DIRECTIVE QUESTIONS GO.
ARE WORDS CHOSEN CLEARLY NEUTRAL ETC. ETC. ETC.
Evidently you failed to notice that the psychiatrist working with the Hills was, if anything, hostile to the UFO explanation.
IF HE WOULD HAVE LED AT ALL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AWAY FROM what they were describing.
Try again. You’re wrong about the quality therapists using sound techniques.
Those of us who have studied the topic a long time do not give any credence to the charlatans, anyway.
Certainly there have been horror stories using hypnosis poorly, even unethically.
That’s NOT the case with the vast majority of UFO cases with qualified professional practitioners.
Shoot even Bud Hopkins how HAS HAD TRAINING IN HYPNOSIS, has learned to do a credible, honorable, non-leading job of it.
BTW, you may be unaware . . .
My PhD is in Clinical Psychology and I have been trained in hypnosis.
I gather you’d also prefer to rob beleagured folks of relief from their traumas with such phenomena just because it didn’t fit your constructions on reality?
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