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To: Badeye
Does viscous pertain to something other than a tendency to bite?

I, for one, am not into speculating on the MOTIVES for the dog biting (vicious, afraid, protective, dominating, etc); just the fact that they may bite.

That being said, the two breeds I hear are the worst to deal with are Chow and Akita.

Having herd numerous vets or vet techs expressing displeasure with the viciousness of some dog breeds, hearing you say what you did took me aback.

Any vet who doesn't recognize differences between breeds in the tendency to bite and ability to inflict serious injury when biting is an absolute idiot.

60 posted on 02/18/2009 1:46:06 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream

‘Does viscous pertain to something other than a tendency to bite?’

Yes, it does. A ‘tendency to bite’ can be found in any dog breed, just as a tendency to smack the wife around can be found among humans. Its not the ‘norm’, but it does happen.

‘Vicious breed’ as it relates here is the oft repeated claim by ignorant people about a breed of dog the media has generated publicity about, or hollywood has.

BAck in the 1970’s, it was Dobermans, for example. In the early 1980’s it was Rottweillers.

Both became ‘status symbols’ among the lower ranks of our society (criminals of various stripes).

Its been ‘pitbulls’ for the past fifteen years or so. Even though German Shepards have been ‘caught on tape’ uncounted times attacking/maiming/ and sometimes killing a kid breaking into a junkyard to steal car parts for example.

There is no such thing as a ‘vicious breed’ of dog. There are however, vicious dogs. The percentage of those dogs is exceedingly low when you consider the entire population as a whole.

Whats being done here is no different than what our gun grabbers do with firearm related violence. They are taking a set of numbers, without any background context, and putting it out as ‘The Only Truth’.

Let me give an example, using firearms.

We have outlawed full automatic weapons - machineguns - for 80 years.

Did you know there has never been a documented case of a legally owned full automatic weapon (machine gun) being used to commit ANY crime?

Yet listen to some wailing about ‘automatics’ every day, across the country. They don’t tell you the fact I just shared with you, because its POLITICAL and EMOTION based.

Same thing with the larger, more powerful dogs.

You don’t leave your five year old alone in a room with a gun, for the obvious reason.

Same applies to the larger more powerful breeds of dog.


62 posted on 02/18/2009 1:59:10 PM PST by Badeye (There are no 'great moments' in Moderate Political History. Only losses.)
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To: allmendream; CommerceComet
Part of the problem may be that "vicious" while an appropriate description of specific behavior
may not be a proper description of a breed...

Here is a set of definitions...

vicious (adj)...

  1. evil, immoral or depraved
  2. given to vice, immorality or depravity
  3. malicious or spiteful
  4. violent, destructive and cruel
  5. savage and aggressive

I think we could agree that the first three don't apply to dogs.
(contrary to the author's attempt to characterize dog behavior as malicious)

#4's "destructive" certainly seems an appropriate description of an attack.

Violent(adj) = "Involving extreme force or motion" is an appropriate description of behavior during an attack...

"cruel" imo is a description, because of the intent it implies, of human not canine behavior.

In #5... "savage" if defined as "fierce and ferocious" is acceptable as a description of some attacks

Aggressive?... certainly an accurate description of attack behavior.
Aggression is the behavior I normally work with
since all aggressive behavior towards humans is unacceptable
whether it culminates in an actual attack or not.

So we can agree that dogs can be violent, destructive, fierce, ferocious and aggressive,
that is exhibit vicious behavior, be vicious.

The question is...is viciousness an appropriate description of a class of objects
or only the specific behavior of a member of that class?

Eg...This dog engaged in vicious behavior
Therefore all dogs of this breed are vicious
i.e. the breed is vicious
doesn't follow logically.

We can still ask... do some breeds have a higher proclivity for aggression?
There are temperament test that have been developed to measure
a dog's likelihood of exhibiting aggressive behavior.
The 'pit bull' types consistently rank high, that is, they show stability
and non-aggressive responses to triggers used to elicit aggression.

Some could argue effectively that terriers are generally more aggressive than some other types of dogs
based on the function, vermin control/ hunting, they were developed and used for.
for example my friend's JRT is an avid hunter of squirrels, he is aggressive towards squirrels.
Yet he is not 'normally' aggressive towards human beings.

Which leads to distinguishing between the objects of a dog's aggression.
"pit bulls" may have been used in dog fighting in the past
and still are in some quarters.
Any responsible breeder will caution you that your dog may exhibit aggression towards other dogs.
This is certainly not a problem limited only to "pit bulls" and all dog owners need to be aware of the potential.
I know many "pit bulls" that exhibit no aggression towards other dogs
yet I don't forget that potentially they may.
In any case this aggression does not translate into a proclivity to exhibit aggression towards humans
any more than my friend's JRT thirst for squirrel blood makes him totally unreliable among humans.
No properly trained, maintained, socialized, contained and supervised dog,
the property of a informed, responsible owner, should ever attack a human.
The chance of it happening are infinitesimally small.

That being said...
I think the evidence shows and we are fairly safe in generalizing
that all dogs are capable, have the potential, of exhibiting vicious behavior.
Back even the friendliest, wimpiest dog into a corner
and the chances are good it will exhibit aggressive/vicious behavior.

Types of Canine Aggression....

  1. Territorial aggression
  2. Possessive aggression
  3. Fearful aggression
  4. Predatory aggression
  5. Intrasexual (male-male, female-female) aggression
  6. Parental aggression
  7. Dominance aggression1
All dogs are potentially vicious/aggressive.
Accepting this is the first step towards preventing dog attacks.
Realizing that the potential outcomes of aggressive behavior
is strongly dependent on breed/type is the next step.
As well, not forgetting, the potential damage caused by a dog attack
is strongly dependent on the age (the very young and old being at higher risk) and size of the victim.

Into the mix we add what an analysis of dog attacks has taught us...

Salient or Common Factors


69 posted on 02/18/2009 5:00:25 PM PST by kanawa
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