Macworld.Ars: First impressions of unibody 17" MacBook Pro

Ars Technica ^ | 01/06/2008

[HAL9000]

The current score is -

Swordmaker -6
DevNet - 1

[Uri’el-2012]

And I do know UNIX - use it on a daily basis.

XS>What flavor?

Solaris with a scattering of Linux.

Linux is not Unix.

Solaris is not a flavor

[antiRepublicrat]

despite having an enterprise sales division, that apple isn’t pursing enterprise sales.

They just don't try very hard. Where I work the Dell and HP reps are all over us, trying to push their hardware. We never hear from Apple.

[antiRepublicrat]

Once can determine how much faith a company has in its products by the length of the warranty.

No, one cannot. Warranties are determined using a statistical analysis. A company determines what percentage of a given product sold will require warranty work within specific timeframes. The company then decides how much it is willing to spend on warranty work. A statistical analysis then tells them how long to make the warranty in order to stay within the warranty budget.

You can make the crappiest product in the business, but give a long warranty as long as you budget for it. Conversely, you can make the best product in the business, but give a short warranty because you budget very little for it.

That was college statistics 230 (at least it was for me).

[antiRepublicrat]

I prefer the taste of BSD.

With OS X wrapped around it, of course. :)

Although these days I’ve noticed the popular definition of “UNIX flavor” has widened dramatically to include anything “UNIX-like.”

[DevNet]

I know. Apple’s hardware isn’t any more or less reliable than any other name brand hardware - some of which is made in the same third party factory as apple’s. But that isn’t the image that apple tries to project - they try to claim they are more reliable because they are a premium product.

What is funny is that when they try to do something custom like the cooling for the g5 cheese graters they have a higher than normal failure rate. The product that apple sales that are modified Intel designs are more reliable then the inhouse designs.

[antiRepublicrat]

Hi HAL, long time no see. Hope you had a nice break.

[DevNet]

Are you really telling me that Solaris isn’t a type of Unix?

[DevNet]

Cept that OSX can’t run on nearly as reliable hardware as those.

[DevNet]

The first person to mention UNIX in this thread wasn’t me - it was you.

See post 60.

Now you have a good evening - and do update that list as more than what I pointed out was outdated.

[antiRepublicrat]

I know. Apple’s hardware isn’t any more or less reliable than any other name brand hardware

There you go again. Unless you know the budget variable, any guess as to the quality is meaningless. GM cars didn't get suddenly higher quality for them to offer those very long warranties, they just decided to pay more for warranty work so they could advertise longer warranties to sell more cars.

some of which is made in the same third party factory as apple’s

Most of the individual components in a Mac, like hard drives, are off the shelf. But the manufacturing of the whole computer is not likely to be done in the same facility as the others since Apple uses revolutionary manufacturing techniques, while the others just order what those factories can already produce. Example: the milled single-block laptop cases. Nobody else is doing that.

What is funny is that when they try to do something custom like the cooling for the g5 cheese graters they have a higher than normal failure rate.

High heat always means more of a chance for failure. Heat is THE reason Apple ditched IBM and went to Intel. Not only did the PPC970 run quite hot for a desktop (well, it is mainframe POWER-derived), that made it impossible to put it in a laptop, and the cool-running Freescale (former Motorola) "G4" chips didn't have the performance.

The product that apple sales that are modified Intel designs are more reliable then the inhouse designs.

Apple still designs its own cases and cooling. And the level of quality and attention to detail cannot be found anywhere else in the business. I am a very long-time Windows expert-type, and I switched to Mac in '07. The hardware and software quality are way above any WinTel I've ever had or even used.

[HAL9000]

Hi A-R, it’s always good to see you online. My break is going okay, except that it looks like the Third Clinton Administration is coming, which is like my worst nightmare.

This is off-topic, but I’ve been wondering how in the heck Hillary Clinton got selected to become Secretary of State after all of the State Department scandals by the Clinton family? Roger Clinton was selling diplomatic passports, Bill was using his for commercial purposes, etc. Given their previous conduct, the potential for future abuses in the State Dept. is extremely high. These issues should be raised in Hillary’s confirmation hearings.

[Swordmaker]

I know. Apple’s hardware isn’t any more or less reliable than any other name brand hardware - some of which is made in the same third party factory as apple’s.

There you go again, spouting your opinion without support. There is plenty of data on the reliability of the various brands of computers... and unfortunately for you, those data do not support your assertion.

---

Apple and Panasonic Are Top Performers in RESCUECOM's
Third Annual Computer Reliability Report

Report Helps Consumers Make Informed Choices When Purchasing a Computer This Holiday Season

SYRACUSE, N.Y., Dec. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- RESCUECOM (http://www.rescuecom.com), the nation's premier information technology services company, today announced the results of its third annual RESCUECOM Computer Reliability Report, an unbiased analysis that compares computer vendors' market share with consumer service call data from RESCUECOM's 1-800-RESCUE-PC call center. Results of the report -- based on a sample of more than 36,000 service calls to RESCUECOM -- provide computer users with unique insight about the likelihood that they will require support beyond what is provided by the computer maker's warranty.

"Computers are an important investment and in today's economy, more than ever, it's important for consumers to know the reliability of the product they are purchasing," said David A. Milman, founder and CEO of RESCUECOM. "We created the RESCUECOM reliability survey to inform computer users about what they can expect before -- and after -- they purchase a new computer.

"RESCUECOM has no allegiance to any hardware manufacturer (we call this being manufacturer agnostic), so we can provide an objective and unbiased rating of computer hardware reliability based on real-world experience."

The Report calculates the "Reliability Score" for each computer vendor based on the calculated difference between overall U.S. market share, from January 2008 to October 2008, and the percentage of calls requesting service received by RESCUECOM's call center. Higher scores indicate that fewer calls for service were received for the specific computer vendor versus expected levels based upon market share estimates (scores are in parentheses).

    -- Apple (700)
    -- Panasonic (489)
    -- Lenovo (393)
    -- Toshiba (299)
    -- HP (184)

Reliability Scores are based on a comparison of RESCUECOM's call center data with IDC's third quarter U.S. PC Shipments report: November 2008.

Other notable findings from the data include:

-- Apple ran away with the number-one spot in the reliability survey once again, beating its closest competitor by more than 200 points.

-- In a climate in which notebook sales overtook desktop sales, Panasonic made huge market share gains while keeping reliability high -- thereby rocketing the company to the number-two spot in the ranking.

-- Toshiba, not even a performer last year, took the number-four spot, beating the next closest vendor by more than 100 points.

-- HP, also not a performer last year, took fifth place, removing DELL from the top 5 reliability report.

-- Lesser-known brands and generic PC's performed notably lower than better-known brands.

"Based on the results, consumers should stick with known brands and carefully research extended warranty options," said Milman.

In response to the rapidly changing PC marketplace, RESCUECOM plans to issue quarterly updates to its Reliability Report from this point forward.

For more information, visit http://www.rescuecom.com or call 1-800-RESCUE-PC.

About RESCUECOM

RESCUECOM provides on-site computer repair and support, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. RESCUECOM services everything from home computers to super computers, wireless Internet to global networks, hardware to software, e-mail to enterprise resource planning (ERP). In addition to one-time, on-site solutions, RESCUECOM provides ongoing IT management services for businesses.

I do criticize RescueCom's assumption that Apple Mac users would be as likely to call them when in need of help as PC owners. None of the PC manufacturers have a network of Apple Stores with Genius Bars. Some of the differential can be accounted for by that discrepancy.

On the other hand, as Ars Technica observed, the figures reported by RescueCom are very close to the user survey produced by Consumers' Report.

---

Apple tech support ranks #1 yet again with Consumer Reports

By Chris Foresman
Published: May 06, 2008 - 11:53AM CT

While Apple rarely receives a "best buy" rating from Consumer Reports, ostensibly due to price, the magazine has historically rated its tech support top notch. As pointed out by the Mac Observer, the latest round up from Consumer Reports keeps Apple in the top spot, with Lenovo a distant second for laptops and Dell and even further distant second for desktops.

The report included information from over 10,000 computer owners that sought tech support between September 2006 and January 2008. When the data was tallied, Apple scored an 83 percent and 81 percent satisfaction rating for laptops and desktops, respectively. In contrast, Lenovo scored just 66 percent for its laptop support while Dell trailed Apple 25 points in its desktop support with just a 56 percent rating. It what seems like a blot on computer tech support in general, the average rating among Apple's competition is about 53 percent. So while many of Apple's customers are pleased with the support they get, the same is true for only half of the competition's customers.

The report also noted some additional bits that helped Apple rank as a "Top Supporter." Apple was rated the most reliable brand with only 12 percent of computers that experienced a major problem in the last four years. Also, about 90 percent of problems were solved for free by consulting a Genius at one of Apple's many retail stores. And, while Consumer Reports generally recommends against extended warranties, the magazine does make an exception for Apple Care. While Apple's standard warranty includes 90 days of free phone support in addition to the standard one year parts and labor coverage, Apple Care extends all coverage to three years.

Anecdotally, in the 10 years or so that I've owned Macs, I have had four machines that have been nearly rock-solid. When I did have a problem, though, the support I got was great. While many complain about the alleged Apple Tax included with the price of a new Mac, Apple's top-rated support is worth considering when looking at price comparisons. You do get what you pay for.

---

Apple's reliability rating is echoed in the PC Magazine annual user survey of 10,000 computer users:

---

The Best (and Worst) Tech Support in America: Desktops

07.29.08
No Windows [notebook] vendor can touch the favorable scores Apple received across the board. The Mac maker's scores are similar to those it received last year in our survey, albeit with a slightly reduced tech-support score for desktops (from 8.4 down to 8.1). Apple's major improvements came in desktops less than a year old, where the overall score was up to 9.4 (from 9.2 last year) and the percentage needing repair was down to 4 percent (from 9 percent last year).

---

The Best (and Worst) Tech Support in America: Notebooks

07.29.08
By Sascha Segan and Eric Griffith

Apple's streak continues. Its scores improved or equaled last year's numbers across the board. Readers rated repairs to their Apple laptops at 8.8 this year, up from 8.1—they obviously appreciated Apple's fixes.

---

I note that the raw data shows that the Acer notebooks had a lower frequency of needing repair among all notebooks than did the Apple notebooks and equaled the Apple in notebooks less than a year old.

I've already posted the American Consumer Satisfaction Index report for this year on this thread showing Apple with a score 13% higher than its next nearest competitor.

All of these reports completely disprove your assertion that Apple hardware is no better than the competition.

[Ronin]

When you’re making a pitch, you don’t need to mention batters.

[Swordmaker]

The first person to mention UNIX in this thread wasn’t me - it was you.

That I did... to rebut your unsupportable assertion that Apple did not have "a true server class operating system or any server class hardware." UNIX™ IS a true server class operating system. I then presented evidence that enterprise companies were installing Apple's xServe... which is a server class hardware. I shot your erroneous assertions out of the water.

Now you have a good evening - and do update that list as more than what I pointed out was outdated.

Another unsupported assertion. Tell me, which list members do you think are outdated? I am always interested in current facts. Show me links to your claims. Frankly, the fact that those companies and organizations DID elect to use Mac software and hardware in enterprise applications is more than enough evidence to rebut your assertions.

The eBureau data was just updated as of 11/12/2008, as ws the Auto Warehousing information. As I said before, the list was not meant to be comprehensive. It was merely illustrative. There are hundreds more enterprise businesses that use Macs—including a major foreign bank—that I could have listed.

Answer the question: Did or did not Oracle, a major enterprise level business, elect to use Mac OSX Server, xServes, and xServes RAIDs in their Resilient Low-Cost Storage Initiative? Yes or No?

[Uri’el-2012]

I prefer the taste of BSD.

With OS X wrapped around it, of course. :)

Although these days I’ve noticed the popular definition of “UNIX flavor” has widened dramatically to include anything “UNIX-like.”

During the 80s as an MTS in Bell Labs
I noted many posters on walls of cubicles:

4.3 > V

during those days I was an Emacs bigot.

It was far superior to vi.

My supervisor, a DMTS insisted on using ed.

Which is why when someone showed me
BSD running on a rs6000 chip with the slickest GUI,
I bought a 17"Al Powerbook(1 Ghz) in 2003.

I still use it for Keynote presentations.

[DevNet]

Yes they did - then they discontinued it because the reliability and sales simply weren’t there.

[TXnMA]

"There is plenty of data on the reliability of the various brands of computers... and unfortunately for you, those data do not support your assertion."

LOL!!! Can't you find a bigger hammer?!? </S> '-)

[Swordmaker]

Yes they did - then they discontinued it because the reliability and sales simply weren’t there.

Evidence, evidence, evidence... provide a viable link to evidence, not mere assertions ex cathedra from the keyboard of DevNet.

[antiRepublicrat]

4.3 > V

Geek humor. Gotta love it.