Macworld.Ars: First impressions of unibody 17" MacBook Pro

Ars Technica ^ | 01/06/2008

[DevNet]

Your list is horribly out of date - As of January, 2007, the Resilient Low-Cost Storage Initiative is discontinued. We thank our partners for their participation in Resilient Low-Cost Storage Initiative.

http://www.oracle.com/technology/deploy/availability/htdocs/lowcoststorage.html

No macs have lights out management.
It is impossible to us a mac in a virtualized environment.
OSx server doesn’t have nearly as much centralized management support as other operating system do.

And I do know UNIX - use it on a daily basis. Linux powers my home router - Solaris is used for a variety of tasks - Have used Linux since it came on floppies so your throwing around POSIX certification / UNIX certification won’t have any effect on my because I know exactly how worthless that cert is.

Linux - not being certified shows this to be true.

You also forgot to mention that eBureau recevied that array at nearly 55% off of list price with free integration support and free 24/7 support from Apple.

How is 2k8 buggier than OSx server?

[Swordmaker]

You also forgot to mention that eBureau recevied that array at nearly 55% off of list price with free integration support and free 24/7 support from Apple.

Where did you get that 55% off Apple's list price factoid? Can you provide a definitive link to show that. It certainly isn't Googleable ("eBureau +xServe"). What I have seen is that the Apple xServes cost eBureau about 55% less than going with a competitor, not that Apple discounted their products. The free integration support and 24/7 tech support are expected at this level of IT.

I think you are making this up as you respond.

But, the point is not what eBureau paid but that they are using xServes in quantity.

And I do know UNIX - use it on a daily basis. Linux powers my home router - Solaris is used for a variety of tasks - Have used Linux since it came on floppies so your throwing around POSIX certification / UNIX certification won’t have any effect on my because I know exactly how worthless that cert is.

More proof you really don't know what you are talking about. Linux is not UNIX. Big deal that your home router uses Linux... lots of them do. Mine uses UNIX.

No macs have lights out management.

That's rich. In every post you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge about things Apple and Mac. You certainly could have fooled me... I though I was using Apple OS x Lights Out Management at several of my clients' businesses.

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Apple Support Document: What is Lights Out Management?
Last Modified: December 08, 2006
Article: TA24506
Old Article: 304870
Products Affected: Xserve

Lights Out Management (LOM) is Apple's implementation of the remote monitoring and management protocol Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) developed by Intel.

The addition of Lights Out Management to Xserve provides for the monitoring of over 100 sensors that measure voltage, temperature, fan speeds, etc. Using Server Monitor, one can get a fairly complete picture of the health of an Xserve.

In addition to monitoring LOM can also be used to control some functions of an Xserve. Xserve can be shutdown or restarted from a remote location via the implementation of LOM in Server Monitor. Even if the Xserve is in an unresponsive state, one should be able to gain access via LOM.

The LOM process is controlled by a dedicated processor. This processor works independently of the two Xeon processors in the Xserve, leaving them to focus on server tasks.

The LOM processor is accessed through one or both of the built-in Ethernet ports. Each built-in Ethernet port has two MAC addresses assigned: One is dedicated to the LOM processor, the other is used by Mac OS X Server. This means there are two MAC addresses accessible by Mac OS X Server, and two dedicated to the LOM processor.

During the setup process, IP addresses are assigned to one and/or both MAC addresses reserved for the LOM processor. These IP addresses used by the server and the IP addresses used by the LOM processor must be different. Additionally, an account is created to access the LOM processor. This account is used to access LOM features and data but is not used in any other part of the system.

To manage LOM access (IP addresses and account information), use Server Monitor. This is the only location, outside of the setup assistant, where this information can be accessed. The LOM account will not show up in Workgroup Manager, nor will the LOM interface be visible in System Preferences. For more information on managing LOM access, see Server Monitor Help.

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It is impossible to us a mac in a virtualized environment.

Uh, you're wrong about that, too.

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Virtual Leopard Server, Uncaged: Virtualized Mac OS X Leopard Server on VMware Fusion 2.0

As many of you may recall, at Macworld in January, we gave you a preview of Mac OS X Leopard Server installing and running as a virtual machine on Mac OS X.

Well, in honor of Apple’s Worldwide Developers Conference, currently in full-swing in San Francisco, the VMware Fusion team is excited to announce that Mac OS X Leopard Server will be our 61st supported virtualized operating system, and will be available in VMware Fusion 2.0’s next beta (get the current beta here).

By way of background, all of this is a result of changes Mac OS X Leopard Server’s license agreement, which now allows users to run multiple copies of Mac OS X Server on a single Apple computer.

Virtual Leopard Server is a huge leap forward for Mac server administrators, developers, and more, and we’re truly excited to bring this to the Mac community, in VMware Fusion 2.0, which will be a free upgrade for all VMware Fusion 1.x customers.

And as has lately become our tradition, we’ve put together a short highlight video to get you started, along with more details below.

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OSx server doesn’t have nearly as much centralized management support as other operating system do.

It has every bit as much centralized management support as Windows, UNIX and LINUX does... because it can run all of those if needed... plus it has the OS X Client Management software:

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Client Management. Command and Control

Mac OS X Server provides advanced tools for centralized management of users, groups, and computers in your organization.

Centralized management.
Workgroup Manager simplifies system administration by providing centralized directory-based management of users, groups, and computers across your organization. For example, you can create standardized desktop configurations, set preferences, and establish password policies, as well as control access to hardware, software, and network resources.

For security-conscious environments, you can use Workgroup Manager to prevent users from burning media, mounting external hard drives, or running unauthorized applications. It also works with portable computers ensuring settings, configurations, and policies are maintained even when users are disconnected from the network.

Software update server.
By deploying a software update server, administrators can control how and when client computers download software, enabling access to approved software updates only. As the administrator, you now have time to evaluate and test software updates before deploying them throughout your organization.

At the same time, having a local caching software update server streamlines network use, saving the costs of multiple downloads of the same update and reducing unnecessary bandwidth consumption. By eliminating the need for each Mac OS X system to engage in multiple separate downloads for each software update, bandwidth charges (which add up quickly in large organizations) are reduced.

Starting up with NetBoot.
The NetBoot service in Mac OS X Server enables multiple Mac systems to boot from a single server-based disk image, instead of from their internal hard drive. This allows you to create a standard configuration and use it on all of the desktop systems in a department or classroom — or host multiple images customized for different workgroups. You can even create server configurations and run all of your servers from one image. Updating the disk image on the NetBoot server updates all of these systems automatically the next time they restart. In addition, you can copy a directory server configuration to all clients using the same system image. For security-conscious organizations, NetBoot permits Mac computers to boot “disklessly” — without having to read from or write to the computer’s local drive.

Software installations with NetInstall.
NetInstall gives administrators control over the software installed in their organizations. Perfect for upgrading all your Mac clients to a standard or customized installation of Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard, NetInstall provides an easy method for standardized deployment. By creating server-based disk images with custom configurations, you can easily upgrade or restore Mac clients anywhere on your network — saving time and eliminating the expense of distributing software on DVD or FireWire drives.

System imaging.
The new System Image Utility leverages the power of Automator, giving you an intuitive interface for creating NetBoot and NetInstall disk images. Choose from a preloaded library of actions that allows you to specify settings, additional software packages, and installation procedures — then save them as a workflow that builds the installation image.

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Is there anything else you think you know about Macs and Apple you'd like to share? I'd be glad to educate you on those as well. Ignorance is curable. ;^)>

[TXnMA]

Please stop pounding that poor cultist who kneels toward Renton when he prays — with nasty old facts! ‘-)

[TXnMA]

FReepmail 4U...

[DevNet]

I notice you didn’t comment on me calling you for passing off years old outdated information as fact.

about eBureau - I know someone who worked there.

Never said Linux is a Unix - you made a big deal of osx being CertUnix when Linux demonstrates that it really isn’t necessary.

I was incorrect about the Intel LOM that comes with the mac - my brain wasn’t thinking.

What OS does your router use?

Virtulization - that is baby virtulization. No support for moving VM’s across redundant hosts - limited to a single non-enterprise - your words - vendor for your hardware? I think not - You can’t run a mac VM under VMWare and take advantage of the load balancing / disaster recovery / energy saving features like nearly every other x86/x64 os on the planet.

[Uri’el-2012]

DN>The left out the minor issue of it not having a user replaceable batter.

Funny that.

the built-in, longer-lasting battery technology that Apple designed for its largest notebook was the cause of its delayed release

Somehow you did not read the article or failed to comprehend it.

[DevNet]

The battery is built in - the user can not replace it. They have to send it off to Apple to have the battery replaced.

Or can you show me how to replace the battery? When you do please notify apple as they appear -Apple does not warrant the battery beyond Apple’s one-year Limited Warranty. The battery has a limited number of charge cycles and may eventually need to be replaced by an Apple Service Provider. Battery life and charge cycles vary by use and settings. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information.- to be under the impression that it isn’t a user replaceable part.

[Uri’el-2012]

17” Titanium Powerbook

My first gen 17" Powerbook is Aluminum.

[Uri’el-2012]

The battery is built in - the user can not replace it. They have to send it off to Apple to have the battery replaced.

DevNet
Since Dec 29, 2008

Welcome to FR; N00b.

How are the floods in Redmond ?

[Uri’el-2012]

And I do know UNIX - use it on a daily basis.

What flavor?

[DevNet]

Solaris with a scattering of Linux.

[DevNet]

I am from Longview, Texas - not redmond washington.

[Uri’el-2012]

Solaris with a scattering of Linux.

Linux is GNU

GNU is :Gnu is Not Unix

Solaris is SysV

[DevNet]

I know this.

[Swordmaker]

I notice you didn’t comment on me calling you for passing off years old outdated information as fact.

I didn't think it was necessary. I am not doing current research to respond to your comments. That list was one that I prepared for another reply to a Freeper in the past. The others are still current. You have been presenting outdated and simply wrong data as fact consistently—say like stating that Apple does not have server grade hardware or software.

about eBureau - I know someone who worked there.

That's really reliable information—you know somebody who just happened to have discussed the fact that his ex-employer uses what you thought to be non-existent in the enterprise hardware and software they got at a bargain basement price... You'll pardon me if I don't give it much weight. Last report I saw, eBureau is still using xServes and has upgraded to 400 eight core Intel based xServes. In a debate, that purely anecdotal, convenient factoid, would be given ZERO weight as a rebuttal. In a court of law, it would not even be admissible as evidence.

An organization such as eBureau is not going to make a decision to rely on a hardware/software solution purely because they were offered a discount—the least important portion of calculating the Total Cost of Ownership of any hardware investment—other components of the TCO will play a far greater roll in the decision making process.

Never said Linux is a Unix - you made a big deal of osx being CertUnix when Linux demonstrates that it really isn’t necessary.

You implied that LINUX is equivalent to UNIX. It is not. UNIX Certification is a big deal... it means that any business or government entity can rely on that certification assuring a UNIX user that all UNIX applications will run as expected on OSX and that a Mac running OSX can be placed in any UNIX environment without problems. LINUX is not even in the running for that possibility. The reason I mentioned OSX's UNIX certification was in rebuttal to your claim that OSX lacked network management tools. You are aware that UNIX is used in many large industrial, commercial, and governmental networks and that it has a robust set of management tools?

. . . limited to a single non-enterprise - your words - vendor for your hardware? I think not . . .

That's a nice red herring argument that has essentially been used by the Microsoft peddlers pushing their server OS... but they seem to fail to recognize that it could easily be turned against them: ". . .limited to a single Operating System vendor for your software..." But I also told you that Apple is not, at this time, vigorously pursuing the enterprise market.

[antiRepublicrat]

No macs have lights out management.

This bit itself is really funny. How long has it been since you've been around Macs, the 1990s? Next you'll tell us OS X doesn't have protected memory or SMP capability.

And I do know UNIX - use it on a daily basis. Linux powers my home router

LOL! So do I. Well, every once in a while I have to run the web-based configuration utility like everybody else. Not a good reference unless you are actually a router firmware hacker. Tell me you're one of those responsible for DD-WRT, and I'll be impressed.

I know exactly how worthless that cert is.

You're thinking small-game. Currently, besides Apple, the available certified UNIX systems are often run on big iron. What Apple did was put its own OS in the same league as AIX and HP-UX. People who run these systems need to know their software will work, period. If I want to replace an old critical monster Solaris box, I need to know that the software that was on it will work with the new system.

[DevNet]

“didn’t think it was necessary. I am not doing current research to respond to your comments. That list was one that I prepared for another reply to a Freeper in the past. The others are still current. You have been presenting outdated and simply wrong data as fact consistently—say like stating that Apple does not have server grade hardware or software.”

Why should I listen to anyone who tries to pass of information that is years out of date?

“You implied that LINUX is equivalent to UNIX. It is not. UNIX Certification is a big deal... it means that any business or government entity can rely on that certification assuring a UNIX user that all UNIX applications will run as expected on OSX and that a Mac running OSX can be placed in any UNIX environment without problems.”

Not correct. The bases Unix 03 certification doesn’t cover minor things like graphical user interfaces and other minor things. You make it sound like you can simply copy a Unix 03 targeted app over to a mac and it will run - we both know this isn’t correct.

I haven’t pushed any operating system - you on the other had are. You mention all the bugs in windows server yet refuse to name them - why? I think it is because if you name the bugs I will be able to combat them and that isn’t a good PR tactic. Much better to speak in generalities without providing any testable data.

“You are aware that UNIX is used in many large industrial, commercial, and governmental networks and that it has a robust set of management tools?”

Yes - and most of those installations are Solaris, HPUX, or AIX not osx. I mean if linux was so horrible IBM would not be pushing it so hard.

Still waiting on your answer as to what UNIX you run on your router and what bugs 2k8 has that are so horrible.

[Swordmaker]

I find it funny that you are defending Apple - a premium brand - by comparing it commodity computers. It sort of appears that they aren’t a premium brand - that their hardware is no different than all the other major computer brands.

I'm still waiting for the list of notebook/laptop manufacturers that offer a standard 3 year warranty on their top-of-the-line mobile computer. Since you have not been forthcoming, I did some research:

• Apple, 1 year parts and labor, hardware, OS, all Apple software installed on the computer.
• Asus, 2 year parts and labor, 1 year battery, software & OS, install and uninstall help only.
• Compaq, 1 year parts and labor, hardware & limited software only.
• Dell, 1 year parts and labor, third party, hardware only.
• Fujitsu, 1 year parts and labor, hardware only.
• Gateway, 1 year parts and labor, 3rd party provider, hardware only
• HP, 1 year parts and labor, hardware & limited software only.
• Lenovo, 1 year parts and labor, mail in, hardware only.
• Sony, 1 year parts and labor, hardware only.
• Toshiba, 2 year parts and labor, 1 year battery, hardware only.

Only Apple's warranty covers the whole widget. That says they have confidence in their entire product.

Do you know of any notebook/laptops with a standard 3 year warranty? Or were you just throwing anti-Apple attacks against the wall to see what might stick?

[Swordmaker]

Why should I listen to anyone who tries to pass of information that is years out of date?

The list was by no means comprehensive, nor was it specified as, or meant to be, up-to-date—nor does the discontinuation of the Resilient Low-Cost Storage Initiative invalidate the information. It was not discontinued because of any failure on the part of Apple. The point is: did or did not Oracle, a major enterprise level business, elect to use Mac OSX, xServes, and xServes RAIDs (I know, Apple has now discontinued the RAID) in their RLCSI?

Why should I listen to anyone who tries to pass of information that is years out of date?

Don't bother. Why should I listen to anyone who makes false—and easily checked—and unsupported claims such as the ones you have tossed out on this thread? Your claims and speculations are far more out of date and ergo devolve into the realm of FUD.

I haven’t pushed any operating system - you on the other had are.

No, you are just criticizing one with assertions of "facts" that are easily researched and disproved.

I maintain the Mac Ping List on Freerepublic. This is a thread about Macs. The topic of this thread is Ars Technica's article on their first impressions –not an in-depth review—of the new unibody 17" MacBook Pro. It is not a thread about UNIX, not enterprise usage of Macs, not your misguided, outdated opinions of Macs. You are attempting to hijack the thread, a practice that is frowned on here at FreeRepublic. Among your false claims and implications on this thread are:

• "The left out the minor issue of it not having a user replaceable batter."(sic) (rebutted- article mentions it, but at least you are on topic.)
• "If the Apple was of higher quality it would have a better warranty - it doesn’t. Once can determine how much faith a company has in its products by the length of the warranty." (Unsupported assertion of lack of quality in Macs based on spurious logic and your opinion.)
• You leave out a major issue with apple and the enterprise - that little issue of them not having a true server class operating system or any server class hardware. (irrelevant strawman and false assertion.)
• No macs have lights out management. (false assertion.)
• It is impossible to us a mac in a virtualized environment. (false assertion.)
• OSx server doesn’t have nearly as much centralized management support as other operating system do. (False assertion.)

When was the last time you actually USED an OS X Mac, or a Mac xServe, or OS X Server? And I mean used not just played around with one.

[Swordmaker]

Yes - and most of those installations are Solaris, HPUX, or AIX not osx. I mean if linux was so horrible IBM would not be pushing it so hard.

Yep, the other three fully certified, POSIX compliant, UNIX™ Operating Systems... and the same certification means that OS X is fully as capable as any of them.