[patch789]

to 3

liar.

it takes one gallon of petroleum,
to make 13 gallons of ethanol.

[aft_lizard]

He’s the liar?

http://www.utbioenergy.org/TNBiofuelsInitiative/FAQs/

Does it take more energy to produce ethanol than you get out of it?

Net energy value (NEV) is the term most used to describe the energy of ethanol. The NEV is the amount of ethanol energy produced minus the amount of energy used in the process to make ethanol. Overall, research has shown that the NEV of ethanol is positive. Some research, however, contends that the balance is negative. As technology has developed, the overall average NEV across all studies has been increasingly positive.

Another way to look at the energy balance is to look at the fossil energy ratio. The fossil energy ratio is the ratio between the amount of fossil energy used to create ethanol. For example, producing one unit of gasoline energy requires the input of 1.25 units of fossil energy. The fossil energy ratio here would be 0.8, indicating that it takes more energy to make gasoline than we get out of it. Corn grain ethanol has a fossil energy ratio of about 1.6,

[RFEngineer]

“liar.”

Ok, you wanna throw the “L” bomb, then I’m going to ask you for your credentials.

Whaddya got? PHD in Chemistry? Physics?

[Kozak]

[aft_lizard]

Here is an article that disputes your 1-13 ratio even further.
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002881.html

In terms of energy output compared with energy input for ethanol production, the study found that:

* corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced;
* switch grass requires 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced; and
* wood biomass requires 57 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

In terms of energy output compared with the energy input for biodiesel production, the study found that:

* soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced, and
* sunflower plants requires 118 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

[Uriah_lost]

You really should have something to corroborate that statement. Calling somebody a “liar” and not supporting the accusation is very bad form. I would note that he used no corroboration either which means that you could have “won” the tread if you had simply sited your evidence. I was willing to read evidence from either of you but I’m not sure I’ll bother now.

Yes, I am being somewhat sarcastic but as my teachers used to say...”Always show your work or you don’t get credit”.

[org.whodat]

it takes one gallon of petroleum, to make 13 gallons of ethanol.

I'm calling Bulls** on that one. Balls in your court, where's the proof.

[Hoodat]

Patch, It takes 1.44 gallons of ethanol to have the energy equivalent of 1.00 gallons of gasoline. From this site, Table 1 will show that 81,000 BTUs of energy are required to manufacture a gallon of ethanol. Multiply this by 1.44 results in 116,770 BTUs to produce the ethanol equivalent of a gallon of gasoline.

Now, let'e examine gasoline. This site shows that a gallon of gasoline provides 115,ooo BTUs of energy. This means that it takes the energy equivalent of 1.015 gallons of gasoline to produce the ethanol equivalent of 1.000 gallons of gasoline. And this assumes that gasoline production is a zero-sum game, which it is not. It takes far, far less than 115,000 BTUs to produce a gallon of gasoline.

So, who's the liar now?