Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (Spoiler Alert!!)

07/11/07 | Dianna

[Dianna]

Please DO NOT read this thread if you have not seen the movie. Even if you have read this book, topics under discussion can affect what you will expect in the last book.

Several pet theories for the Deathy Hallows have, perhaps, been laid to rest by the release of this movie. A number of plot points I had thought were important to the end of the series were completely left out of Order of the Phoenix.

1. There is absolutely NO reference to the cleaning of Grimmauld Place. Thus, any speculation about the locket horcrux being hoarded by Kreacher must be false.

2. The prophecy was never heard in full. The portion of the prophecy which could have referred to Neville instead of Harry was omitted.

3. There was no mention of Percy's estrangement from his family. Percy was shown at Fudge's side at important points, but unless his face was remembered from previous movies, people not reading the book may not have caught that.

There were two plot changes which puzzled me. Cho was the one who gave Dumbledore's Army away, not the unimportant character of Marietta. Also, Sirius, before he falls through the veil calls Harry, "James". I assume these changes have a point, but I don't know what.

There was also no reference to Hermione and Ron being Prefects. There was no Quidditch at all, so Ron would not be on the team.

[CholeraJoe]

Did anyone else see Emma Watson on Conan O’Brien’s show last night? She was nervous like any 17-year-old would be but not at all like her character, Hermione. Very bubbly when talking about the movie and Rupert Grint’s ice cream truck.

[PapaBear3625]

I many be one of the few who is still not convinced that Dumbledore is dead. If Snape didn’t ‘mean it’ when he pronounced the curse, it may have been just for show, to make Malfoy and the other Death Eaters think he’d killed Dumbledore so they could tell Voldemort that Snape had done it. That just cements Snape’s place among the Death Eaters and gives the Order a valuable spy in their midst.

I also think that Dumbledore will return in the last book. Too many things point to it. Dumbledore having a phoenix as a pet, a bird which keeps dying and returning. The group being named Order of the Phoenix. Malfoy being told that the order could hide him from the Death Eaters by faking his death. Etc, etc.

I half expect Dumbledore to come charging out of that gateway in the Department of Mysteries at the climax to the last book. I think that gateway has a big role to play

[PapaBear3625]

I’m not sure bullying has anything to do with it...I speculate that Snape was just another guy totally captivated by Lily Evans... there has never been a bad thing said about her... I think we find out in the last book that Snape was devastated that he inadvertently caused her death. He doesn’t like Harry because he looks so much like James, but because he’s Lily’s son, he’s never hurt him either, he even stopped that curse in the last pages of HBP.

I also speculate that Snape had a thing for Lily. There's a clue in "Prince" where the replacement Potions professor, commenting about Harry's newfound talents in Potions (due to Snape's book) and how Lily also shined in Potions. Perhaps Snape has a crush on Lily and was helping her get through Potions class

[null and void]

What I found surprised me. I found an epic tale of good vs. evil. In complete keeping with fairy tales of old, the Harry Potter stories, I found, resonate with the human heart not because they are evil, but because they are good. It is good for us to read tales where evil must be overcome through difficult means because our lives are like that every day. I found elements that resonated with me, with my faith, with the spiritual life, and, after much research, prayer and thought, decided that despite all I'd heard to the contrary, the Harry Potter books were, in fact, good reading for our family.

Bingo!

I suggest in my book that if you do want to read them, or to let your children read them, they should be read together, as a family. The books provoked many discussions in our home, and in order to participate in those discussions, the parents need to know the names of the characters, how they act, who is friends with whom and so forth.

These books have been the wellspring for many excellent discussions with my children on human nature, politics, bureaucracy, and the importance of making the right decisions when the wrong ones are seductively easy.

I've also found that when we listen to them on tape or CD during long trips makes the long trips into short ones (like magic!)...

[null and void]

I think the movie was originally closer to two hours, but the director was ordered to make cuts to bring it to 2:18 to be able to squeeze in more showings/day and increase profits

Did you mean closer to three hours?

...and...

Does this mean we might be able to look forward to a longer "Directors Cut" DVD?

[null and void]

Hogwarts could be looked at as an engineering school

You TOLD!

[dragonblustar]

I don’t see that. I see Snape as a person craving admiration and never getting it. There were several hints of this through out the series. I also see that as being why he hates Harry so much. Harry isn’t the brightest of students but when he gets Snape’s potion book he gets all the credit for the work Snape did.

Snape was supposed to be very bright. If I remember well, he knew things seventh year students didn’t know. The fact that Lily was very good in potions and getting all the credit and attention might have made him jealous. Then to have her son who ins’t so bright being compared to his mother and her talents might have set off another fuse.

Another thing is that Lily is a mud blood. Snape is very staunch supporter of everything slytherin. He calls himself a half blood because bloodlines are important. If Snape had a crush on Lily, why would he call her a filthy mud blood?

Plus, I still haven’t heard anyone address his girlfriend? It was in the fourth book when Harry was looking into the pensive and he heard this girl complaining to Dumbledore that Snape cursed her because she caught him kissing a girl. Now, I know the American books don’t have this part but I promise you, that’s what I had in my British book. ( I’ll see if anyone on the net has that line. )

Anyways, I think Snape is a troubled person who turned towards the dark side because he is more respected than he is with Dumbledore’s group. But sadly I hate to see this of him. I like the unlikey heros myself but I really don't think this will happen to him.

[dragonblustar]

Hogwarts could be looked at as an engineering school You

TOLD!

I thought it was a school for liberal arts??

[PapaBear3625]

Did you mean closer to three hours?

Yes, that was a typo of mine. You can tell they did some chopping. I look forward to seeing a longer version on DVD

[null and void]

Nope. The distinguishing feature is that engineering and magic work.

The very name "Liberal Arts" derives from them being what people who are "liberated" from the need to work study. Seriously. Look it up.

[schwing_wifey]

Happiness is a “Directors Cut DVD” of 3 hours

(sigh)

;D

[null and void]

Yeah.

Now think of every movie being re-released as an extended “Directors cut” That should be good for the next 7 years at least...

[dragonblustar]

I should have put a sarc/ behind that.

: )

[schwing_wifey]

sheepishly ..... And I'll buy them all again if thats the case....

[grellis]

(To the tune of the William Tell Overture): "I'm a dork, I''m a dork, I'm a dorkdorkdork!" I'm the queen, baby!

I saw the movie last night, and sadly, it showcased what I disliked most about the book. Throughout much of the book, HP does a lot of whining, complaining, feeling sorry for himself, yadda yadda. With good reason, sure, but it was annoying. That was captured pretty well on film.

The special effects in the battle between LV and Dumbledore were incredible, by far my favorite bit of the movie. My nine year old loved it, said it was his favorite of the movies yet. I rank it below PoA and GoF, personally.

[schwing_wifey]

I got to tell you, I’m not going anywhere near “The Doubting Harry” thread.

Its just a story... a fantasy that takes us to a different place... a chance to meet and talk about a book with people all over the country and world... (and it has my son reading books hundreds of pages long...hello!!!!)

Its like a huge bookclub. Why do people have to read more meaning into it than is necessary? I love talking about it and can get very enthusiastic about it but then I go run errands, do laundry, feed everybody, clean the house, and get on with life. Am I missing something?

Don’t mind my vent.... I just took the boys out for a 15 mile bike ride and haven’t showered yet...yeah...smelly... and I need a refill on my ice tea....

[SuziQ]

This always happens with a new Harry Potter book or movie. Mainly it’s the folks who think that the books encourage witchcraft, or will lead kids to the occult, or somehow damage their souls. I haven’t seen any upsurge in the occult since the books came out lo those many years ago, though, and if kids enjoy reading books that show a clear delineation between good and evil, and show the consequences for choosing the latter, then that’s fine by me. It’s a darn sight more than our popular culture is teaching them!

[SuziQ]

My kids thought it was the best so far, as well. The part about Harry whining, though, was even more pronounced in the book. He was just a twit sometimes! But, he's a teenager who feels put upon, who among us hasn't had one of those, even in the best of kids!

My only beef with the movie was the set design for the Department of Mysteries. I didn't like the black tiled walls and floors. I guess I would have preferred an 'old building' look like the lobby with its wide plank wood floors and stately fireplaces; more of a 'shabby elegance'.

[grellis]

You are so right about the sets! What gets me is that the Ministry is so thoroughly described in the books, right down to the torch brackets, and the set designers got it completely wrong! So much for creating atmosphere.

[schwing_wifey]

My son’s almost 15... Daniel Radcliffe certainly managed to portray his character’s age properly.

What I wouldn’t give sometime to be able to use duct tape....