The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread 11

[HairOfTheDog]

The FreeRepublic Saddle Club - (very out of date) Who's Who *pics*

This is a horse chat thread where we share ideas, ask for input from other horsemen, and talk about our riding and horse-keeping. We have a lot of different kinds of riders and horses, and a lot to share. In the previous threads we have had a great time talking through lessons, training, horse lamenesses, illnesses and pregnancies... and always sharing pictures and stories.

I always have a link to this thread on my profile page, so if you have something to say and can't find the thread in latest posts… look for it there and wake the thread up!

I also have a ping list for horse threads that are of interest, and MissTargets will now be pinging everyone most mornings. Let MissTargets and/or me know if you would like to be on the ping list. As FreeRepublic is a political site, our politics and other issues will probably blend in…. There are many issues for horsemen that touch politics… land use, animal rights/abuse cases that make the news…. Legislation that might affect horse owners.

So... like the previous threads, this is intended as fun place to come and share stories, pictures, questions and chit-chat, unguided and unmoderated and that we come together here as friends. There are lots of ways of doing things and we all have our quirks, tricks and specialties that are neat to learn about.

Previous threads:

The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - thread ONE
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - Thread TWO!
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - Thread THREE!
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread FOUR
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread FIVE
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread SIX
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread SEVEN
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread EIGHT
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread NINE
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread! - Thread TEN

New folk and occasional posters, jump right in and introduce yourselves, tell us about your horses, and post pictures if you've got them!

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I wish this forum had an edit button like the horse forum:)

One more thing and I’ll let it go.

When and if they can cure severe laminitis in horse that just develop it, then I’d say it would be OK to try to fix a catastrophic injury such as this. But till then, they need to be put down immediately and not used as guinea pigs. They’ve been hurt enough.

Becky

[CindyDawg]

That’s an interesting point but I think the key is prevention. You have a horse that is injured. It’s a high risk. What can we learn to prevent laminitis from happening to begin with? Should animals be kept alive , just anticipating they will founder? No, of course not. You have to treat all his injuries, hoping for a healthy recovery from the fracture without developing laminitis. They made good progress with the fracture. There is still a lot to learn about circulation though.

[CindyDawg]

Remember when that girl, Lemon drop(?) was here and so upset. I was thinking at that time, ok, let him go.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

with imperfect information

Bingo, you got it!!:)

My point. My post was a rant that we cannot get anything but imperfect information. That was my point:). How can we make informed decisions with the information we get. I'm sure the owners, vets, everyone did the best they could, they had the best info. My point is they made it public, but I don't believe the public was privey to the same information. But since they WERE giving info, it should have been.

We need to raise a ruckus not about what was or was not done for the horse, but for what we were or were not told about what was going on.

Becky

[CindyDawg]

Yeah,I agree, in the end it was their decision. I know it wasn’t easy.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I would think, if they can cure severe laminitis in horses that develop it, they would have a better chance of preventing or at least lessening the effects of horses that are in this position.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

No, I don’t remember that.

But once again, I’m not bashing anyone that was involved with. I’m sure they were all doing their best with the best intentions.

I’d just like to learn from it, what is the best thing to do in these situations.

Becky

[CindyDawg]

Memo to the Vets:') Can I come observe and report back to Free Republic next time? I promise not to get in the way.

Cindydawg

P.S. Can I bring Paynoattentionmanbehind the curtain to take pictures? I have the darndest time with cameras lately

[Beaker]

I think I’ve figured out, that this program just didn’t tell the whole story (imagine that:)...they just said the sling carried him back to his stall...there was no explanation that it was still a recovery stall and not his own.

Of course the documentary wouldn't tell the whole story, it would mearly angle in to get the most out of people's emotions, or try to spark some sort of controversy, like AAM said. Plus, TV people/producers/whoever always tend to screw up details like that, or not get their facts straight, and that's one of my pet peeves, especially relating to stuff like this, where it's important. (IMO) If you're going to do it, do it right. (Again, IMO)

[CindyDawg]

I don’t know about that. Which is better? Treating a disease or preventing it?

[AnAmericanMother]

Here's the problem: they have absolutely NO obligation to tell us anything.

Talking to the media takes the participants' time and attention away from their work. The media often distorts, edits, and outright lies. And they're never satisfied - they want 15 minute updates so they can put something out on deadline.

This is not a matter of sunshine law or open government. Neither the vet nor the horse owners are my representatives or paid by me. They have absolutely no duty to waste their time organizing, writing down, and delivering information to me through the media.

Eventually all of the facts and the information they learned will be organized, written down, peer reviewed, and given to the folks who can actually use it - the vets. They in turn will pass it on to their clients, the horse owners. That's how the system works.

The alternative is to demand that these people give us for free all that information in real time "I want it and I want it now!". I can't in good conscience demand that.

It's like trying a case in the media. What good does it do? It just confuses matters.

I am glad to know as much as we were able to learn. And we'll find out whatever is useful for horse owners once it has made its way through the proper channels.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

LOL.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Then don't give any information at all. Tell the media to go ____ themselves, and keep it private. These controversies exist because we get half truths. That's my gripe. And honestly, I don't know who to blame for that. Did the vets, owners, give all the info and the media edited it, or did the media report honestly....who knows.

I am glad to know as much as we were able to learn

How do you know anything you "learned" is accurate tho? and doesn't that piss you off:)? It does me.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

f you're going to do it, do it right. (Again, IMO)

And I agree whole heartedly with your opinion:) That's been my whole point.

Becky

[AnAmericanMother]

If the vets had told the media to p!$$ up a rope, the vast majority of people on FR and elsewhere would be sitting here raging that they weren't given any information. And the public would get P.O.'d generally at the vet school and the owners and make a lot of trouble for them.

You had little kids drawing pictures and sending apples and carrots and stuff. They couldn't just tell the media to get lost.

No way to win this controversy.

[CindyDawg]

I did think the cards and gift baskets were too much though. This was a horse.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Mack and I were talking about that yesterday...mostly in relation to how they shut down that expressway so they could get the horse to the hospital faster...How often do they shut down expressways to get people to a hospital faster????

Some of these questions are just tough...People enjoy having something to connect with in a common cause...having that cause can be easier when it’s NOT human. We will all be sad if the results are not good, but it still after all is just an animal, so it’s not so trumatic. But let it be human, and it’s a lot tougher, so just don’t connect at all.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

LOL, you are so right. It’s really a no win situation.

But with my mistrust of the media, I think it would be rewarding to be able to tell them to pi$$ up a rope:). I take great pleasure in that. and I’d applaud anyone who did it that had a story they really wanted:)

Becky

[HairOfTheDog]

Chatty bunch this morning... hope I have included everyone who’s here to say good morning to this morning!

I am glad they tried... and I have my own opinion about why they failed (which probably doesn’t amount to a hill of beans compared to the resumes of the people involved, but that’s never stopped me before).

In the first day or two after this happened, I copy/pasted the same prognosis for what to expect on many threads where his treatment was being argued on this forum: “Movement is life to a horse, they’ll need to get him moving as soon as possible.” I knew if he had to stand in a stall he’d get laminitis, a horse’s lower leg and foot circulation comes from movement. And the thing is... I know the doctors “knew” that too.

I wonder if he’d have survived, if they’d risked the repair and turned him out. With the cast on if they feared the repair wouldn’t hold. Give him lots of quiet pony powder so he doesn’t run and buck, but get him walking and grazing. Yes, I know they hand walked him, but that’s not enough.

I wonder if they debated it. I wonder, since these are TB people whose horses are always stalled when they aren’t being worked, if they assumed that stall rest was best, when a country vet would have said “turn him out”.

I go back to the farrier Patty Stiller’s posts about founder that I’ve read, she kept saying “after the acute founder phase is over, the horse needs to be turned out. The horses I’ve treated who were turned out all made it. The ones who were stalled and on Bute ALL died. I wonder if he’d been turned out early, while the bum leg still really hurt, if he’d have taken care of it, but still moved enough to keep his other feet from falling apart.

If I had access to the people involved, that’s what I’d ask.

[HairOfTheDog]

Close Patty’s quote after ALL died.” The “I wonder part, is mine.