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To: Alter Kaker
Hares with lighter fur are less likely to be seen by hawks on a snowpack.

So are you claiming something made this happen (design)?

You are reviewing historic data and applying a rule to it - nothing selected these animals - it just happened. Natural Selection is random because Natural Selection is an observation - not a force or power that can do anything. While black rabbits on the snow would not have a chance - still nothing is doing the selecting - it is random mutation with random success. In the past tense we can apply structures but nothing selected the rabbits.

Read Darwin - if it is not random, it is not evolution.

The selection isn't random -- there's a very good reason why rabbits with lighter fur survive -- but neither is it designed.

Answer the question please - if Natural Selection is not random - what force/god/designer is doing the selecting? What makes the selection?

Nothing designates a creatures ability to survive - it happens randomly.

183 posted on 09/21/2006 9:23:22 AM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: Last Visible Dog
You are reviewing historic data and applying a rule to it - nothing selected these animals - it just happened.

No, in this isntance, the hawks are doing the selecting. Some hares will have alleles leaving them darker, others will have alleles leaving them lighter, and that distribution will be somewhat random. But the fact that the hawks will eat more of the dark ones is anything but random, and it's the hawks that lead to a gradual shift in allele frequencies (aka evolution). Dark hares would have a chance and white hares wouldn't be invulnerable, but over time, lighter hares will clearly be more reproductively succesful than darker hares.

Answer the question please - if Natural Selection is not random - what force/god/designer is doing the selecting?

You're still not getting it. Here, the environment is doing the selecting. In this case, the active selector are the hawks. You either survive to pass on your genes or you don't, and if you don't, you're selected out of the game.

Nothing designates a creatures ability to survive - it happens randomly.

If that were the case, then it wouldn't matter what pigment a hare's fur is -- surival rates would be roughly the same for all populations. Faster rabbits would have no edge over slower rabbits. Smarter rabbits wouldn't be better at foraging for food than dumber rabbits.

186 posted on 09/21/2006 9:37:52 AM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Last Visible Dog; Alter Kaker
... While black rabbits on the snow would not have a chance - still nothing is doing the selecting ...

the predators aren't?

228 posted on 09/21/2006 10:31:46 PM PDT by Virginia-American (What do you call an honest creationist? An evolutionist.)
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