My Fellow Freepers, We need to have a talk.

To: tricky_k_1972

We as Christians (sorry for generalizing) have many atrocities in our own past history to be ashamed of, we grew out of it and now are trying to pass that learning on to others.

We can not expect to teach the great values of our society if we are also damning them all to hell, doesn’t work all that well.

Saying that “All the Muslims Are to Blame" is just as bad as saying that "All the JEEWWWWSSSS are to blame"

Sorry. I'm not buying your moral equivalence.

21 posted on 09/14/2006 9:23:42 PM PDT by sauropod (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." PJO)

To: tricky_k_1972

We are at war with Islamism, not Islam. Conflating the two guarantees that we can never win.

But try telling that to the 'nuke 'em all' crowd.

22 posted on 09/14/2006 9:23:49 PM PDT by Wormwood (Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter because nobody listens.)

To: tricky_k_1972

I think what you have here is a portion of FReepers that are very vocal when it comes to condemning all Muslims without distinction and quick to jump the gun in suspecting Muslims whenever something happens, despite a lack of evidence (case in point, the Columbine-influenced Goth gunman at Dawson College).

The rest are either disinclined to say anything against it, or are quickly condemned as apologists or naive when they do.

23 posted on 09/14/2006 9:26:10 PM PDT by Ex-Dem

To: tricky_k_1972; dennisw

YOU WORRY ME...

I've been trying to say this since 9-11, but you worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends, for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.

On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women, in front of children, and brutally stabbed others to death. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers. The Palestinians celebrated and Iraqis were overjoyed - as was most of the Arab world.

So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.

How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim-Americans, and the Arab/Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR Constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children? The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me.

I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it? Or do you pray that Allah will destroy it in one of your "Jihads"? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots, who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts about your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion, to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent, because I worry about who you regard as innocent. No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks, because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy...I am only interested in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war?

I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America .." I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering, and to this nation as a whole. The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are.

Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.

The very few Arab/Muslim representatives who HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible, before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad, than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people - then I want chapter and verse from the Koran, and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it, if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true, when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance?

It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE - if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly, and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion: a form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.

Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public, rather than cover up like a shameful whore? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and you fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire Middle East?

And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here? Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave I want you to go back to your desert sandpit, where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE! We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest Constitution in the world.

I want to know where every Arab/ Muslim in this country stands, and I think it is my right, and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters, who died protecting the very Constitution that is protecting you and your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to you to show me where you stand.

Until then, you worry me.

John Maniscalco is "said" to be a Captain with American Airlines.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1698999/posts

24 posted on 09/14/2006 9:29:05 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- IF only 10% are radical, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)

To: Gordongekko909

Hey, at least they aren't Mohammedans anymore.

No, but now they've lost any moral compass they may have previously possessed and their deep-seeded and irrational hatred for America may still seethe. Thanks so much.

25 posted on 09/14/2006 9:35:44 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)

To: tricky_k_1972

"We do not blame children for learning from their teachers that 2 + 2 = 5"

We don't, but once they come of age, they don't have that excuse anymore. In our case, that's when someone turns 18; in their case, apparently, it's when they get their first kill, or learn to flip the switch on a suicide vest.

My point being is we judge people of a completely different culture by our own standards of comportment at our peril. That's how soldiers go to their deaths by being their normal, friendly selves and walk into ambushes with "friendly" locals.

It makes us feel good that we're treating everyone the same, but really, it's a suicidal point of view, when the enemy is BETTING on our good natures.

26 posted on 09/14/2006 9:37:00 PM PDT by Darkwolf377

To: tricky_k_1972

And it will be a Muslim that kills the next American soldier to die fighting against terrorism.

We are at war with Islam, just as we were once at war with a nation of Shintos and Buddhists that believed that once they had captured our soldiers and civilians they could do anything they wanted to to them.

Starvation, executions, vivisection's, be headings, torture, medical experiments, slavery, all these things and more the Japanese were perfectly willing to do to our soldiers and civilians because they thought we were Gaijin or what Muslims call infidels. In the end we had to break their willingness to make war to bring about peace, we did that by teaching them that war is a horror that no one should want or use to enslave or destroy others.

We can afford to be gracious only in victory, because we won't be allowed to be humble in defeat.

We'll be dead or enslaved.

27 posted on 09/14/2006 9:39:18 PM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese, that why I don't sing.)

Do you honestly think I do not agree with his sentiments?

I am not crazy, nor do I think any of our fellow Freepers are either.

I have said already that the Islamic society has not done enough publicly to denigrate those among them that practice thise hateful, murderous ideology in their name, that is FACT.

What is also fact is that their are a large group of Muslims that are helping us, they are our fellow citizens, they are soldiers in our Army, they are informants within the Muslim world, they are agents working in our government spying on their own society.

What can never be justified is racism.

28 posted on 09/14/2006 9:39:28 PM PDT by tricky_k_1972 (Putting on Tinfoil hat and heading for the bomb shelter.)

To: tricky_k_1972; Xenalyte

If Hitler had thought to call Nazism a religion, he'd have won.

29 posted on 09/14/2006 9:42:03 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is a perversion of faith, a lie against human spirit, an obscenity shouted in the face of G_d)

30 posted on 09/14/2006 9:42:08 PM PDT by phoenix0468 (http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)

To: tricky_k_1972

I doubt my reaction is welcomed. To dare compare the Jewish people with the Islamic ones is reprehensible to me. I take exception to this and I would hope others will as well.

31 posted on 09/14/2006 9:46:01 PM PDT by ladyinred

To: tricky_k_1972

IF the majority of Muslims in this country do not share the same Fundamentalist beliefs as those who want to kill us, then I must say, they have given new meaning to "SILENT MAJORITY."

32 posted on 09/14/2006 9:49:35 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- IF only 10% are radical, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)

I wish that I could agree with you, but after reading their holy books for myself, and also personal experience with one who pretended to be a good guy, I cannot, and will not. If they follow their religion at all, they cannot be our real friends.

33 posted on 09/14/2006 9:51:27 PM PDT by ladyinred

Please give me some information on the specific "blessings" bestowed on pre-Torquenada Spain as well as pre-Nazi Germany.

I would definitely have to change my opinion on the matter if you can supply some facts to support your statement.

34 posted on 09/14/2006 9:52:11 PM PDT by saradippity

You are confusing two separate issues, I have said already that you let Generals dictate War, wining is the only option on the battle front, you do what it takes.

What we think as a society is a totally separate issue, we can not, we must not, let racism rule us at Home.

We must show the rest of the world and Muslim society what is the appropriate way to behave in a democratic Republic if we expect them to accept our form of government.

If we as a society show to the rest of the world that their is no possibility of living together with Muslims then they have no reason whatsoever to even think about changing, "Might as well fight, they hate us all anyway".

We have to be better than our enemy.

Again, racism is NEVER justified, not according to my God.

35 posted on 09/14/2006 9:52:13 PM PDT by tricky_k_1972 (Putting on Tinfoil hat and heading for the bomb shelter.)

To: tricky_k_1972

The Islamofascists are the most serious threat to the world today, but it's not becasuse they're Muslims. It's because they're Fascists. They are the modern equivalent of Naziism. They must be dealt with the same way.

But to condemn all Muslims becasue of the actions of the Islamofascists is teh saem as condemning all Germans for the actions of the Nazis, all Italians for teh actions of Mussolini, all Chinees peple for what the Communist Chinese hve done (and they are right up there in the list of major threats, BTS), or all Hindus for the violence of the RSS. It's like blaming all white guys for Timoghty McVeigh or all black folks for the violence that the black militants carry out. It jsut makes no sense.

36 posted on 09/14/2006 9:52:43 PM PDT by S.S. Monkeyface

To: phoenix0468; ladyinred; dennisw

Mohammed's Own Words

Some examples:

Qur’an:8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588 “When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42 “We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326 “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

37 posted on 09/14/2006 9:55:44 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- IF only 10% are radical, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)

Hitler did in fact use religion to justify Nazism, only it was Christianity he used, so by your statement, maybe we should have outlawed Christianity and started rounding them up.

38 posted on 09/14/2006 9:57:11 PM PDT by tricky_k_1972 (Putting on Tinfoil hat and heading for the bomb shelter.)

Islam has as a core belief the idea that all other peoples of the world must submit to islamic rule or be killed.

There are many Muslim scholars and relkigous leaders who will tell you that that is a misinterpretation, a perversion of tehir religion.

Did oyu see the 9/11 movie on ABC? I loved the judge who sentenced RAmzi Yousef. He said that Yousef had "no right to tell us about Islam. Yolu do not worship Allah. Your god is death." Bingo!

39 posted on 09/14/2006 9:57:13 PM PDT by S.S. Monkeyface

To: jan in Colorado; onyx

#24 says it all for me.

40 posted on 09/14/2006 9:58:50 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)

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