JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case SuspectFR Thread Roundup

Free Republic ^ | August 16-20, 2006 | FReepers

[Rte66]

For your bookmarking assistance, this is a reference list of links to the Aug 2006 or newer Free Republic threads on the topic of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and the possible arrest of John Mark Karr as a suspect in her murder.

[stlnative]

All speculation on my part...

They may know it's him through DNA results. I keep hearing that Karr may have sent something to Tracey by mail or Karr may have sent something to LE thinking he was sending it to Patsy before she died. The problem is they have to prove that Karr was the sender even if they have a DNA match on what he may have been sent.

They have to figure out how to prove that Karr was sender of the item that was mailed in. It could be that Karr hand wrote a confession letter to Patsy with details unknown to the public about JonBenet's death and his DNA may have been on the letter and now they are trying to match up the hand writing on the letter to Karr. The hand writing in the letter may have matched up with ransom note.

Then Karr was watched in Thailand for about 1 week before he was arrested. Thai investigators had access to his room without Karr's knowledge. If they obtained his DNA from something in his room, that those results may not hold up in court due to him being in Thailand and also again they would have to prove that Karr was the donor of the DNA.

Then we know they took a DNA swab from his mouth while he was under arrest in Thailand again this is a problem because he was not under arrest my US authorities at that time.

If any of the above has any truth to it... then I can understand why they need 2 weeks to get their ducks in a row.

[hoosiermama]

Been thinking on the same line for days. The dna in THailand is irrelavant.* It simply was used to make sure they had identified the correct person.

They will get another sample, court ordered, with immaculate lines of identity to use in court as a comparison to the dna found at the scene of the murder.

* Said earlier I suspect he licked a stamp/envelop on mail he sent to the professor.

CASE CLOSED

[Halls]

I do to. I believe KARR did this crime. No one wants to believe him because his family says he was with them Christmas of 1996, but I don't believe them, I believe Karr.

[Kylie_04]

Pad and pen? At my house? Not a chance I would miss it.

Quite frankly, I would be tickled pink to learn that JMK is indeed the killer. I have just not been shown that he is yet. We'll all have to wait on that.

As to his comments after he was arrested - I can just as easily take them to be constructed by a person that is just crazy enough to want the attention...he was awfully careful to say "no comment" to certain questions while willingly saying he was "with JonBenet when she died" and the "it was an accident" stuff...

Like I said, I am just not there yet. I need some more pieces to fall into place...like proof he was actually anywhere near that house in 1996.

Reasonable doubt. I am a REAL pain in the arse to be on a jury with. But I am exactly the kind of person I would want on any jury that was judging me. :)

[Kylie_04]

I have no issue with the needing two weeks to get their ducks in a row. That actually makes sense.

I AM concerned by the recent reports that the DNA from the murder scene may not be of any use...degraded/contaminated, whatever. It almost reads like an expectations game...so that if they can't match anything to Karr, we (the general public) won't necessarily think that means he isn't the perp.

On top of that, I get a squicky feeling about this Michael Tracey and his involvement in fingering JMK.

I'll be waiting and watching.

[Rte66]

I know it says that, but it isn't quite right. Dr. Beuf never performed a standard pelvic or vaginal examination on JonBenet. With a child, it requires sedation and he said he never did that.

If I have time, which I may not, I'll try to find a better explanation of what actually constituted the exam Schiller chronicled there. I believe it was just a cursory look because of redness on previous visits.

Patsy stated that she never mentioned the bedwetting to Dr. Beuf. Also keep in mind that Beuf became their pediatrician after John R met him on the golf course and they became friends. He also went to their church.

(My PMPT page numbers in paperback are very different from the hardback ones listed on ACR's timeline.)

[Rte66]

John wouldn't have known if the FBI were working the case or not. They said they were.

[Rte66]

I don't think I've ever heard why the angel was taken - other Christmas ornaments were, as well. The garland was needed for comparison to the bits of garland found in JonBenet's hair.

[stlnative]

Let's say Karr is the perp...

Patsy died on June 24th, 2006
Karr is overseas and he thinks he is communicating with Patsy but really he is communicating LE. LE pretends that they are Patsy and they tell Karr... "I need to know if was really you that killed my daughter before I die, your word is not enough." Karr want to come clean with Patsy and he understands that he needs to prove to her that he is the one that killed JonBenet. So Karr knows she is on her death bed so he mails Patsy something. (it could be a lock of JonBenet's hair or a trophy item he took that night and a hand written letter from Karr).

This package may have arrived before Patsy died. (Let's say it arrived on June 20th) But the reality is that LE has the package and letter. The first thing they are going to do is send it to a lab. I will take a while to get the results back. In the meantime they try to locate where the package was sent from, maybe they know where it was sent from so LE is sent overseas to check it out (He may have sent it from Malaysia.)

Karr is already gone and in Thailand by then but now they have his name, because they tracked him down to a school or hotel room in Malaysia and who they talked to may have said that Karr said he was heading to Thailand to teach. So CO LE tell Thailand LE to keep an eye out for a John Mark Karr. Thailand LE said it takes about 2 weeks for the paperwork in Thailand to be caught up with who is entering or leaving the country. John Mark Karr's name shows up on Thailand paperwork, now Thai police have to locate him.

They trace him to room in Bangkok and they move 2 detectives into the same hotel to watch him. In the meantime the DNA results come back from the item or items that Karr sent to Patsy (Colorado LE), they know the hair is JonBenet's (if he sent hair) or they know the trophy item is one missing piece to the puzzle. They look the handwriting over on the letter he sent and it matches up with the ransom note. Bingo they got him.

So they have Thai LE arrest him and now they have brought Karr back to the US. Now they have to prove what the CO LE has was actually sent my Karr. They have to also find out how he got to Colorado and prove that he was there on 12/25 and 12/26 of 1996.

I would say that all this went down very fast and in just the last 2 1/2 months. Patsy died most likely before the DNA results came back from what was sent by the killer of JonBenet. They probably knew as soon as she died that there would not be anymore communication coming from this person so they had to track down where the package came from and then find out who actually sent it. Karr was on the move, so they had to track him down. But once they got him (and they got him quickly) this left them having to prove that he was the one that sent the package and they also have to prove he was in CO during the time of JonBenet's death.

Again this is all speculation on my part - but if this is how everything went down, like I said I can see how CO LE is having to catch up with everything and I have no doubt that they are working hard on it.

[stlnative]

There is nothing wrong with the DNA they have - There is a report that LE has plenty of samples to use even if they have to run a fresh test. All 13 markers came up during a new test that was done in 2004. All the 13 markers came up due new technology and testing methods.

All this will be proven in court and chances are Karr's lawyers will get a nice sample to test in their own labs.

Let me see if I can find the story that says they have plenty of samples to test from.

[ableLight]

I think that's a great theory. It makes sense. Remember, too, that there was microscopic evidence recovered from JBR's body that was examined at a lab in IL in apparent connection to Karr...

[ableLight]

"Patsy stated that she never mentioned the bedwetting to Dr. Beuf. Also keep in mind that Beuf became their pediatrician after John R met him on the golf course and they became friends. He also went to their church."

Ahhh, I had wondered how chummy the doc was with the Ramseys. I think I have an idea now.

[Rte66]

Example on livor mortis on JonBenet. She had some streaks of red and white bands on her back at waist level, indicating that whatever she was lying on had moved or her body had.

If an object is protruding into the skin or constricting where the blood flows while livor mortis is taking place (it's a somewhat gradual process, not all at once), it will show up when the livor is finalized.

Those bands of blanching on her back turned out to be from the elastic on the waistband of her thermal leggings. It could be interpreted that she was dragged and the elastic was being pulled down (as if she were dragged by the arms raised over her head and the pants were coming downward) or just that as the fullness of her body was shrinking in death (blood and oxygen no longer coursing through the tissues), the elastic was inching downward.

The red bands would be blood; the white bands, the blanching where the tightening elastic was.

A contusion is a response to a trauma; a hemorrhage can take place on its own for an internal reason. There is often swelling with a contusion, in addition to the darker purple color of the area affected.

Sulci are the valleys or furrows in the brain "wrinkles" and gyri are the peaks. As they fill with fluid, the gyri become fuller and the valleys narrow because the peak "bumps" take up more room. If they swell too much, they reach the brain cap and skull, thus flattening the puffed-up peaks.

Bruising on the temporal lobes' tips indicates "coup" - the word I was trying to think of the other day. Think of it as "bounce." Contre-coup is when the brain is jostled in such a way that it bangs against the *opposite* wall of the skull from the direction the blow came.

Coup indicates the jostling happened. In this case, there was some movement of the brain from side to side, rather than from back to front. It could have even been up and down - the blow could have come from above. I believe the temporal segments that were affected are the slimmest connections, therefore they show coup first, in a slight blow.

JonBenet's temporal contusions were slight, but they were there, more on the right than on the left.

Again, forgive my making up words to describe these; it's difficult for me to relate what I'm picturing.

[ableLight]

Fascinating. Wouldn't contra-coup indicate a blow with a stationary object? Just thinking about the physics of it, I would think that a moving object would not cause the brain to recoil against the opposite side of the skull...

[oceanview]

hmm. so they claim to have all 13 markers now? where did you read that?

was the date of that "discovery" AFTER they received the letter from Karr?

the chain of custody for this whole DNA is going to be a huge part of this case.

[Rte66]

The CO end of everything didn't know Karr's name until August 11th. They only knew it five days before he was arrested.

Tracey had an email or letter with a vague street address on it that wasn't exact, just an area of Bangkok. Cops traced the email to that Internet cafe that is next door to the fleabag hotel where he stayed.

They asked Thai cops to assist. Thai cops kept all the Americans in that hotel under surveillance for several weeks. A BDA investigator was there for 3 weeks, but didn't know Karr's name or that he was that specific American among those they were watching.

Then Tracey sent something to a PO Box Karr gave him. Karr had previously told Tracey he was getting around on a 21-speed bicycle. When someone on a 21-speed bicycle came to get the package at the PO Box, they nailed him as "Daxis." That's when they found out his name was John Mark Karr.

[stlnative]

I am back now from taking my fur children out for a potty break and then puting them to bed in their dens (crates).

I'll start looking for the report again, but I know I posted the link in this thread.

[Rte66]

Yeah, that was the DNA "X" that we had just found out about in court testimony from Beckner, I think, right before I started not paying much attention to the case anymore.

I did hear that they were able to process it for 13 markers (when I quit paying attention, seems like they only had 10 and needed 13), so they were finally able to run it through CODIS, but no matches. They continue to do that weekly. All I had heard all along was male Caucasian.

[oceanview]

when were they able to process it for 13 markers?

[Rte66]

There are too many nuances to it and exceptions to the rule for me to comment on it from just this.

It was a topic we debated for many years and I'm still not clear on what actually happened.