what a pretty face she has!
OK... I am back on topic!
Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66
For your bookmarking assistance, this is a reference list of links to the Aug 2006 or newer Free Republic threads on the topic of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and the possible arrest of John Mark Karr as a suspect in her murder.
Fine. The cleaning lady who found the clean sheets in the dryer in the basement on frequent mornings - the basement where JBR was afraid to go - and where she would've had to run the washing machine and then the dryer - must have been mistaken.
Sometimes Linda washed them, sometimes Patsy washed them. JBR was not known to have ever stripped her bed and washed and dried her own sheets.
OFF TOPIC
OMG - My local news just showed a young cat that lives at a animal shelter in Colorado that has a birth defect. The cat's rear legs are deformed and are too long, so she can not walk on them. So the cat walks on it's front paws with it rear end and legs completely vertical from the ground. That kitty's name is Lola. - too cute and amazing!
Either way, panties for JonBenet were kept in her bathroom, which you could not reach while sitting on the bed.
And didn't she say that the 'normal' sheets used on that bed were in fact in the dryer in the basement right after the murder?
Saw her doing that yesterday and I wanted to cry, even tho the shelter says she's not in pain. Everyone thinks it's cute and funny, but I didn't, when they showed the behind shot. Otherwise, very cute.
Yes, they had been changed.
We don't know why she said what she said.
OFF TOPIC
she is a little miracle kittie... at least she is alive and is very frisky, she will be fine.
Here is the story and her picture for those who haven seen it.
http://www.ksbitv.com/home/3736911.html
I think you did, CTM. Let me summarize my main points:
1. Both the head trauma (which was far more massive than I ever knew before yesterday) and the garrotting were fatal injuries in and of themselves.
2. The autopsy photos and report make it clear the child was alive -- by alive, I mean her heart was still pumping -- at the time both acts occured.
3. We know she was alive when the head wound occurred because of the massive bleeding between her scalp and skull, and on the right side of her brain.
4. We know she was alive when she was strangled, due to the distinctive telltale signs of death by strangulation which were present on the child's neck and face.
5. Although I'm not an MD, I'm exceptionally well read. On that basis, I'm taking an educated guess that, without rapid medical support, the head wound would have been fatal within a very short time from when it occurred. Probably only a few minutes at the most. I think she might not even have survived the time it took to carry her from her bedroom to the basement.
6. All of this suggests to me that the head wound and strangulation occurred, at most, within a very few minutes of each other and probably in the same location.
7. The shape of the main head wound is rectangular -- a rectangle laying on its long side across as much as a third of the right side of the child's skull. It has the appearance of having been caused by a hard, rectangular object that struck JonBeney laterally. By laterally, I mean similar to the way a baseball bat is swung, although the wound does not look like it matches the rounded end of a bat. It looks more comparable to the head of a golf club, or perhaps to the corner of a table.
8. The massive fracture that radiates off the main head wound runs laterally around the back of the skull. That might indicate the direction from which the blow came. I'm not qualified to say if it was struck from directly in front of her or directly from behind, but I think it must have been one or the other. The image I have in my mind is of someone standing behind her and swinging something comparable in shape to a golf club, but swinging it in the same motion one swings a baseball bat. If she wasn't struck in such a manner, then she was thrown or fell violently against something hard and probably rectangular in shape.
9. However, the blow to the head also could have occurred while the killer was in the act of strangling her. If she struggled violently for a brief period and/or if the killer was violently tossing her about while tightening the garrot, her head could have been smashed sideways into an object such as the corner of a table. So it is entirely possible that both the strangulation and head trauma occurred pretty much at the same time.
10. Because I don't want to imagine a six-year-old girl living for some time, however brief, through that savage strangulation -- and it was very savage -- I prefer to see the scenario in my mind's eye as someone behind her striking the blow to her head, then doing all the rest of it within, at most, two or three minutes. If the blow to the head occurred first, that is the only merciful thing about this whole vile atrocity. Once that child suffered the head wound, she knew and felt nothing else.
11. I belive the immense savagry in the way JonBenet was garrotted indicates that this was a rage killing. The force needed to strangle a six-year-old is far less than what was used on that poor child. The groove all around her neck caused by the extreme tightening of the ligature was astonishingly deep. I just can't imagine anyone doing that to a small kid unless they were motivated by a white-hot rage. That suggests this wasn't a garden variety kidnapping for money that went bad. Literature on criminal behavior indicates that the vast majority of rage killings are perpetrated by someone known to the victim.
Right, I'm with you there. I'm just wondering if there wasn't a certain pattern of deception going on here. Could the underwear have been in the cellar room? Patsy finds the bed wet, takes the sheets down, passes JBR after eating the pineapple in the breakfast room, and brings JBR with her to the basement to change her. She grabs the nearest underwear (and the large underwear punishment for bed-wetting), redresses her just outside the cellar and ...
It would explain both apparent prevarications/deceptions?
PR does NOT want to say anything about any pineapple or about the underwear being at the murder scene.
Does that make sense?
I'm not going to speculate on that.
Correction, in my last post to you, I said across the right side of the child's skull. Without going back and checking again, I think I'm wrong on that point. It was the left side, I think. Again, not certain without going back to check -- and I don't want to look at those autopsy photos again. In any case, which side doesn't matter unless it might bear on the killer's handedness, left or right handed.
(((Hugs)))I appreciate your posts-been following along.
Wolfstar, this is close to what I've been saying and I agree with most of it. I'm not as convinced about the time intervals between injuries but that is not THAT crucial at this point. Yes, the head trauma was fatal, no question about it. The entire right hemisphere of the brain itself was bruised 5 mm deep. This is massive. It is rage.
The ligature part is harder to interpret IF it came after the head wound -- intentionally squeezed with all one's might for deception's sake or done that way out of pure rage? I don't know and I don't think we have any way of answering that w/o more info. I can't second-guess how twisted a family member might be as to what lengths they will go to deceive.
I think the crack was from front to rear longitudinally along the upper right side of the skull - above the parietal region of the brain. Right handed - blow from rear. Left handed - blow from front...
Hmmmm....
I agree. But if we know it to be deceptive then what really happened must be something OTHER than what she claimed and it must fit the forensics. Speculation, mind you, but interesting.
I didn't say or imply that JBR stripped and changed her bed, that's a big job for a sleepy 6 yr old. But climbing shelves to get a fresh pull up would be normal.
I thought JBR's bed was soiled that a.m. and am unaware of any claims that someone washed her bedding during that night.
My point is that a 6 yr old who wakes up wet may change themselves and either get into someone elses dry bed, or grab a clean blanket and move to the floor or sofa. So it's entirely plausible that JBR was moving around after everyone else was asleep. And it's also possible that she wasn't and someone "helped" her.
But the fact that the pull ups were on a high shelf means nothing in and of itself.
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