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To: freedumb2003
The ID "challenge" that macro-evolution is no more testable than ID also shows they don't understand (and in the case of their references, frequently purposefully misunderstand) how science works and what "testable" means.

Agreed; about 98% of the Christians out there don't understand the point you are making. I do. I am a Christian.

The possibility exists that ID is correct, however. Because of the nature of a Creator, being inherently untouchable through our limited senses, through our limited means of exploring the universe through science (because science can only reach out and touch, verify, and test those things bound within the confines of our own universe), the Creator may be forever un-verifiable.

Thus, the need for (1) General revelation, and (2) Special Revelation.

General Revelation: Noting that, hey, shucks, there shure are a buncha coincidences that occur in physics to make this planet habitable.

Shucks, there shure are a buncha coincidences in biology and chemistry and astronomy.... Darn! Bet it ain't all no coincidence, huh?

I, for one, believe that O.J. killed Nichole and that other guy. Why? Because there shure were a buncha coincidences you'd have to believe in if you concluded he was NOT guilty. I, for one, didn't believe they were all coincidences. They were evidence for the existence of a murder.

I believe that all the coincidences in the sciences that show how "wonderfully and fearfully made" the human body is (to quote the Bible), and in astronomy (with regard to the "Goldilocks" position of the Earth being "just right"), down to the fact that chemicals and atoms combine the way they do...all indicate INTENT.

I don't believe they are coincidences. I'd be a fool to believe O.J. Simpson isn't a murderer. I'd likewise be a fool not to believe in God, or, at least, some Creator.

Maybe I wouldn't be a fool. Perhaps, like many, I'd just be arrogant. ;)

Yes, folks: There's an Ant Farmer. We're the ants. Look around: things are just too perfect. Put two and two together.

Sauron

351 posted on 08/04/2006 12:56:55 PM PDT by sauron ("Truth is hate to those who hate Truth" --unknown)
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THE sun descending in the west,
The evening star does shine;
The birds are silent in their nest.
And I must seek for mine.
The moon, like a flower
In heaven's high bower,
With silent delight
Sits and smiles on the night.

from "Night," William Blake. (1757–1827)


"Okay, let's see... In mellow-speak, that would be... 'Oh, wow, look at the moon.'"
"Doonesbury" translation of the above, May 16, 1979.


352 posted on 08/04/2006 1:02:22 PM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: sauron

Your conclusions are well stated -- but the important thing is that science CAN'T operate on a premise of ID. It is of no value, since it can't advance scientific thinking or pursuit.

In terms of theology I think we are pretty much in the same space.


358 posted on 08/04/2006 1:40:55 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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