[Senator Bedfellow]

Whatever begins to exist has a cause of existence.

This premise is empirically false, hence the remainder of the kalam argument is worthless.

[sauron]

Whatever begins to exist has a cause of existence.

This premise is empirically false, hence the remainder of the kalam argument is worthless.

Sorry, but the finest thinkers in all human societies disagree with you, and you are out of step with them.

The Kalam C.A. has withstood many centuries of testing, and though there have been other cosmological arguments, the KCA is considered the best. It holds together, and even the most hardened atheists have traditionally conceded the point.

Google it.

Sauron

[sauron]

Whatever begins to exist has a cause of existence.

This premise is empirically false, hence the remainder of the kalam argument is worthless.

Let me get this straight : You are saying that something can cause itself?

You are saying that "things happen" without being caused to happen?

Isn't this the very definition of MAGIC?

You are, in effect, telling us that you believe that some things do not have causes, and yet therefore perform actions...all without something acting upon it?

Oh, this is rich.

This is gonna be a good thread....

Sauron