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An epic battle on Homer's gender
The Australian ^
| July 03, 2006
| Dalya Alberge (The London Times)
Posted on 07/02/2006 7:46:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: SunkenCiv
There is no direct evidence of the poet's identity and therefore no justification for the customary assumption that the two epics were composed by a man." But
Women have a long tradition worldwide as makers of oral literature
Am I the only one that sees the contradiction here? Oral tradition identifies a blind male poet called Homer as the author, so I guess the traditional makers and keepers of oral tradition (women) got it wrong.
We're supposed to be in awe of the wisdom and amazing accuracy of oral tradition, except when the liberals want to rewrite it to fit the feminist agenda.
21
posted on
07/02/2006 8:14:50 PM PDT
by
Valpal1
(Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
To: SunkenCiv
You knew this was coming.
![](http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/talendor/pix/homer_kilt_II.gif)
L
22
posted on
07/02/2006 8:15:21 PM PDT
by
Lurker
(When decadence pervades the corridors of power, depravity walks the side streets.)
To: nopardons
I've read a good bit of Graves, but that's one I missed.
23
posted on
07/02/2006 8:16:49 PM PDT
by
Knitting A Conundrum
(Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Oh yes; that's a fine example! And then, there's MOLL FLANDERS for another.
To: Knitting A Conundrum
Perhaps. But considering the time maybe not.
After all these were guys who were intent on forcing her into marriage and they were a direct threat to her children.
Why would having them slaughtered be so unfeminine?
25
posted on
07/02/2006 8:20:44 PM PDT
by
Harmless Teddy Bear
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
When I was very much younger, I read through almost ALL of Graves and spent some of my adulthood rereading him. I enjoyed HOMER'S DAUGHTER very much, when I read it, but don't know if I'd still.
To: nopardons
Of all the tales in the world, the Oddyssey is one of my most favorite. I reread it every few years because it is one of the greats.
27
posted on
07/02/2006 8:23:33 PM PDT
by
Knitting A Conundrum
(Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
To: Pharmboy
...anal sex between men and boys was commonplace and accepted...
28
posted on
07/02/2006 8:24:42 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Child, one son, who was set to inherit the throne. And in those days, women, even queens, had NO say-so at all, in Greece.
It would REALLY be a man's "voice", because it would be a male, with dynastic sensibilities, re his son and his kingdom, who would have such concerns.
To: Valpal1
Yeah, that seems a little goofy to me as well.
I guess no one has found it offensive that he mentions "women" and "oral tradition" in the same sentence. It's so sexist...
30
posted on
07/02/2006 8:26:54 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
To: Lurker
31
posted on
07/02/2006 8:27:22 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
To: Knitting A Conundrum
Likewise, it is also one of my favorites and I have reread it often, throughout my lifetime.
To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Because the setting is a guy arrangement. A female POV would have had the guy break into the room and carry her away to safety, not the detailed and careful and wonderful battle scene with Father and Son and faithful retainer whooping butt on the bad guys.
IMHO, of course, based on reading huge amounts of ancient and folk tale material....and lots of more modern stuff as well...
33
posted on
07/02/2006 8:31:15 PM PDT
by
Knitting A Conundrum
(Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
To: SunkenCiv
34
posted on
07/02/2006 8:34:49 PM PDT
by
JRios1968
(There's 3 kinds of people in this world...those who know math and those who don't.)
To: nopardons
Penelope, for example, is helpless to protect her estate from the guys who came over and ate up her goods every day, and again, even the powerful women in the Oddyssey are all Goddesses, firmly being controlled by the male Gods, and who pay heavy prices when trying to work around them.
Even Helen is mostly passive, the victim of a kidnapping, unable really to do much - she's a very ambivalent figure, more done to than doing.
Clytemnestra steps out of the mold with her murder of Agamemnon and is constantly compared to Penelope. And even Clytemnestra, in taking this action, can't rule in her own right...daughter of a king even so, but has to have Agamemnon's cousin to fulfil the kingly duties.
Cassandra, in many ways a tragic figure, tries to make her own way, but gets Apollo mad at her, and no one credits her for the truth she tells them, and still goes down to death at the hand of another woman because she refused to be what Apollo wanted her to be.
35
posted on
07/02/2006 8:41:33 PM PDT
by
Knitting A Conundrum
(Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
To: nopardons
Indeed. But Penelope does have a say if only because her suitors wanted everything to appear legal and aboveboard. That she held out so long is proof of that. Her say may not have been a traditional kind of power but never the less it was still there.
She played them very skillfully.
36
posted on
07/02/2006 8:45:25 PM PDT
by
Harmless Teddy Bear
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To: SunkenCiv
Is Homer's Gender of any importance to anyone except Homer.
37
posted on
07/02/2006 8:49:50 PM PDT
by
F.J. Mitchell
(But who or what can check or balance the appointed for life, dictatorial US Supreme Court?)
To: nopardons
Robert Graves is horrendous. I, Claudius was feeble (it still makes me mad thinking about the libel perpetrated against Augustus and Livia).
To: Knitting A Conundrum
Exactly and that is why it was written/originated by a man and NOT a woman! Even in THE ODYSSEY, women, as was the fact in ancient Greece, have no power.
Circe is a witch, because she rules her domain and does so through magic, because otherwise, she has no power.
It is ridiculous for much later generations to speculate about who wrote ancient great works, using the perspective of their own times and completely disregarding the culture/manners of the time such works were written in.
To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Not exactly...if she had had any power at all, she c ould have dislodged the damned freeloaders. Instead, all she did was keep unraveling her weaving and feeding and housing the "suiters" for years on end.
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