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SCOTUS: Conservative Protestant Southerners are Verboten. Why?
GoBucks ^ | 31 Oct 05 | Gobucks

Posted on 10/31/2005 4:54:35 AM PST by gobucks

Why are Conservative Southern Protestants forbidden to be on SCOTUS?

I have not been able to find the name of the Last Conservative Southern Protestant nominated to SCOTUS. It has been at the least 100 years.

I predicted that an Alito type was going to replace Miers. Her Southern Texas drawl was not going to be tolerated during the hearings...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: alito; catholic; scotus
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To: gobucks

Not by himself he won't, but him and another pro-lifer(If Roberts is pro-life) will lead to Roe's death.


61 posted on 10/31/2005 2:51:43 PM PST by NatsFan
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To: Wallace T.
Black was clearly associated with the group of liberals on the Supreme Court that included Felix Frankfurter, William Douglas, Frank Murphy, and Thurgood Marshall.

It's not that easy. One group (among others including Hugo Black, William Douglas, Earl Warren. William Brennan) believed that the XIV Amdt. made the entire Bill of Rights applicable to the states. The other (which included f.ex. Robert Jackson, Felix Frankfurter, John Marshall Harlan and Stanley Reed) didn't share these views and advocated "selective incorporation" (Justice Harlan believed that the SCOTUS should use the XIV Amdt. to strike down laws that were "shocking to the conscience"). Now the difference between Justice Black and other advocates of the incorporation doctrine was that Justices Douglas, Warren, Murphy, et.al. claimed that the XIV Amdt. also covered many other unenumerated rights, whereas Black believed that it ONLY covered the Bill of Rights (read literally) and nothing more. Therefore in the 50s he was considered a hard-core liberal because he took a very liberal view on the First Amdt. (for Black, who believed that it was made applicable against the states, "no law", literally meant no law, including no law prohibiting, say, child pornography) and other BoR issues. OTOH in the 60s many people said that he became a conservative, because he refused to join many rulings which created new rights or interpreted the Constitution in a "creative" manner.

Examples:

GRISWOLD v. CONNECTICUT, 381 U.S. 479, (1965) (Black, J., dissenting)

(...)The Court talks about a constitutional "right of privacy" as though there is some constitutional provision or provisions forbidding any law ever to be passed which might abridge the "privacy" of individuals. But there is not. There are, of course, guarantees in certain specific constitutional provisions which are designed in part to protect privacy at certain times and places with respect to certain activities. Such, for example, is the Fourth [381 U.S. 479, 509] Amendment's guarantee against "unreasonable searches and seizures." (...) The due process argument which my Brothers HARLAN and WHITE adopt here is based, as their opinions indicate, on the premise that this Court is vested with power to invalidate all state laws that it considers to be arbitrary, capricious, unreasonable, or oppressive, or on this Court's belief that a particular state law under scrutiny has no "rational or justifying" purpose, or is offensive to a "sense of fairness and justice." If these formulas based on "natural justice," or others which mean the same thing, are to prevail, they require judges to determine [381 U.S. 479, 512] what is or is not constitutional on the basis of their own appraisal of what laws are unwise or unnecessary. The power to make such decisions is of course that of a legislative body. Surely it has to be admitted that no provision of the Constitution specifically gives such blanket power to courts to exercise such a supervisory veto over the wisdom and value of legislative policies and to hold unconstitutional those laws which they believe unwise or dangerous.(...) My Brother GOLDBERG has adopted the recent discovery that the Ninth Amendment as well as the Due Process Clause can be used by this Court as authority to strike down all state legislation which this Court thinks [381 U.S. 479, 519] violates "fundamental principles of liberty and justice," or is contrary to the "traditions and [collective] conscience of our people." He also states, without proof satisfactory to me, that in making decisions on this basis judges will not consider "their personal and private notions." One may ask how they can avoid considering them. Our Court certainly has no machinery with which to take a Gallup Poll. And the scientific miracles of this age have not yet produced a gadget which the Court can use to determine what traditions are rooted in the "[collective] conscience of our people."

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District 393 U.S. 503 (1969), (Black, J., dissenting)

The Court's holding in this case ushers in what I deem to be an entirely new era in which the power to control pupils by the elected "officials of state supported public schools . . ." in the United States is in ultimate effect transferred to the Supreme Court. (...) I deny, therefore, that it has been the "unmistakable holding of this Court for almost 50 years" that "students" and "teachers" take with them into the "schoolhouse gate" constitutional rights to "freedom of speech or expression." (...) The truth is that a teacher of kindergarten, grammar school, or high school pupils no more carries into a school with him a complete right to freedom of speech and expression than an anti-Catholic or anti-Semite carries with him a complete freedom of speech and religion into a Catholic church or Jewish synagogue. Nor does a person carry with him into the United States Senate or House, or into the Supreme Court, or any other court, a complete constitutional right to go into those places contrary to their rules and speak his mind on any subject he pleases. It is a myth to say that any person has a constitutional right to say what he pleases, where he pleases, and when he pleases. (...) This case, therefore, wholly without constitutional reasons, in my judgment, subjects all the public schools in the country to the whims and caprices of their loudest-mouthed, but maybe not their brightest, students. I, for one, am not fully persuaded that school pupils are wise enough, even with this Court's expert help from Washington, to run the 23,390 public school systems in our 50 States. I wish, therefore, wholly to disclaim any purpose on my part to hold that the Federal Constitution compels the teachers, parents, and elected school officials to surrender control of the American public school system to public school students. I dissent.

I wouldn't call these views too liberal...

62 posted on 10/31/2005 3:50:32 PM PST by Tarkin (Janice Rogers Brown to the SCOTUS)
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To: NatsFan

No, no, no! We don't need a pro-lifer, we need somebody who actually read the Constitution :-). I mean, Justice Kennedy is pro-life, so what? He voted to uphold Roe in Casey. OTOH, Justice White was pro-choice, so what? He dissented in Roe and later always voted against upholding it.


63 posted on 10/31/2005 4:01:11 PM PST by Tarkin (Janice Rogers Brown to the SCOTUS)
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To: trisham

My thoughts exactly. Come on "southern conservative protestants", you start to sound like liberals when you demands things like this. Why should it matter if Alito is a Catholic if he is a good judge?


64 posted on 10/31/2005 4:07:36 PM PST by Tarkin (Janice Rogers Brown to the SCOTUS)
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To: Wallace T.

"While the English Puritans, the Scottish Presbyterians, and their immediate descendants in America were strongly focused upon education of their young people, the rise of liberalism in the mainline denominations redirected the old zeal in a secularist direction."

Your comments have merit to a degree. And that is a pretty interesting sentence too.

I'd be interested to hear your outlook on what it was that nutured the 'rise of liberalism in the mainline denominations', and would you please clarify what you mean when you type the word 'liberalism'.


65 posted on 10/31/2005 7:07:57 PM PST by gobucks (Blissful Marriage: A result of a worldly husband's transformation into the Word's wife.)
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To: gobucks
My specific reference was to theological liberalism in the 19th Century in the mainline Protestant denominations. The Ivy League universities were largely founded by Calvinist churches. Only one became Unitarian (Harvard) in the early 19th Century. The others lost their Christian emphasis in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries as orthodox belief was supplanted by theological liberalism among Congregationalists and Northern Presbyterians and Baptists. Nevertheless, the elite universities and private schools maintained high academic standards even as they became heterodox and secular humanist in orientation.

Theological liberalism first arose in Germany partly in response to findings in various fields, such as archeology and geology, that seemed to disprove the accuracy of Scripture. It also sought to answer the philosophical arguments against orthodox Christian teachings that arose during the Enlightenment of the 18th Century. Its origins are in the German Enlightenment, notably in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant and the religious views of Friedrich Schleiermacher. Major tenets of theological liberalism are the beliefs that personal opinion and experience outweigh dogma, that the Christian church is a community of persons united by common experience rather than creeds, and the absence of fixed, immutable truths. Liberal Christians generally reject the historicity and accuracy of many books of the Bible and deny or treat as mythology such core Christian doctrines as the Virgin Birth, the Trinity, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

As for what nurtured the rise of theological liberalism in the mainline churches, the prestige and scholarship of the German and European universities where these doctrines were taught and the relative lack of evangelical apologists to counter the claims of ascendant liberalism were major factors. Only one seminary, Princeton, was a stronghold of orthodox Christian scholarship, and even that institution succumbed to liberalism before 1930. The evangelical community was by and large more interested in soul winning. The "superstars" among evangelicals between the Civil War and World War II were popular orators like Dwight Moody and Billy Sunday, not scholars like Benjamin Warfield or J. Gresham Machen.

As Marxist theory thrived in the absence of strong defenders of free market economics in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, so liberal Christianity gained ascendancy as evangelicals failed to challenge their positions effectively. The popular revivalists may have "won souls" in the rural areas and working class neighborhoods of the cities, but they were largely the subject of disdain, if not ridicule, among the upper classes. The results of this emphasis, combined with the effects of dispensational theology, separationism, and sinless perfection theology, provided a clear path for liberal Christians in their long march to dominate the mainline Protestant denominations and the prestigious private universities.

66 posted on 10/31/2005 8:17:15 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.

Lotta good points there. Helps explain why unions didn't take off in the South too. (IMHO)


67 posted on 10/31/2005 8:37:28 PM PST by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: BibChr; Diddle E. Squat; All
The closest thing to a codification of the Catholic way of reading the bible is in this document from 1993

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM .

Now, is there a similarly authoritative description of a "Christian" way of reading the Bible?

68 posted on 11/03/2005 9:58:44 AM PST by Remole
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