[SunkenCiv]

Many more sites about this stele, although I thought there was a topic on FR.

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[SunkenCiv]

Please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[SunkenCiv]

Ancient Mediterranean Lingual 'Incongruity'
Cyclone Covey

A Pelasgian stele on Lemnos proves anomalous only as a survival of Pelasgian writing, not as Etruscan-related in the Aegean before Classical Greek eradication of the Luvian-speaking remnant of Mycenaean culture. Etruscan tombs in Italy retained Mycenaean-style frescoes. Romans, whom urbane Etruscans largely civilized while ruling, retained much of Mycenaean-Etruscan culture, including sarcophagi and other funerary practices, purple-bordering of magistrates, horsemanship, political organization, soothsaying, lanterns, cisterns, taverns, and legends of a migration via Carthage after the fall of Troy.

[garyhope]

I'm guessing either Tuscany or New Jersey.

[SunkenCiv]

The Lemnos Stele
by Ray Brown
December 2004

It will be seen that the text contains no voiced plosives, but it does show a sries of unaspirated voiceless plosives and of aspirated voiceless plosives which is exactly what we find in Etruscan. Furthermore, only four vowels are attested: a, e, i and o. Etruscan also has only four vowels: a, e, i and u. If the Lemnian language is related to Etruscan, then clearly Lemnian o will correspond to Etruscan u. We do not know what sound z denoted in either language.

[SunkenCiv]

Etruscan Texts: Lemnian Stele
by unknown

shivai sialchveish avish marashm av

holaieshi naphoth shlashi vanacasial sheronai morinai <->c

evistho sheronaith aker tavarshio

shivai avish sialchvish marash <->m avish aomai

holaiesh phokiasiale

sheronaith evistho toveronarom haralio

shivai epteshio arai tish thoke

[SunkenCiv]

Obligatory tinfoil hat item:

The Etruscan Cryptolect: A New Theory On The Origins And Language Of The Etruscans
by H.T. Bryer

Using the Etruscan vocabularies contained in Massimo Pallottino's The Etruscans 1975, and Larissa Bonfante's Etruscan, 1990, as a basis for reliable comparison I will demonstrate the possibility that Etruscan is a cryptolect which was ingeniously devised by the Etruscan priestly and ruling castes whose primary language and culture was decidedly Italic. Like their cousins the Celtic Druids (who possessed a cryptic speech called Ogham) the Etruscan Haruspices framed their secret language for both religious and secular reasons.

[SunkenCiv]

Indo-European Chronology

Despite many bright statements which can be found on the Web nowadays, the Etruscan problem remains with us, and their origin and their language classification are still unknown. If we summarize all that has been said and found about Etruscans, we can see that the majority of discoveries confirm ancient theories of their Asiatic homeland. Several historical facts, archaeological relics, words from Egyptian, Greek and Italic sources, some similarities between Etruscan and Hurrian languages, and finally the problem of the Lemnos Stele - all these are in favour of Asia Minor as the original land of Etruscans.

They came to Italy and occupied northern and partly central districts of the peninsula. Soon, due to overseas trading and contacts with higher civilizations of Phoenicians, Greeks and Egyptians, Etruscans acquired writing, invented their own alphabet and brought up their original culture, so unlike other cultures of that time Europe.

[Prost1]

Paris, after the fall of Troy, took the remaining population back to their homeland, Etruscia...

The Trojans were Etruscans. The Etruscans were most likely Semites. imo...

[martin_fierro]

Where Did The Etruscans Come From?

Etruscany.

Next question.

< |:)~

[neb52]

Have you read "The Etruscan" by Werner Keller(1974). He theorized they were remnants of Lydia. I guess he wasn't to far off?

[NYer]

Interesting. There are many small villages in southeastern Italy whose dialects retain certain Etruscan words and expressions. In the Province of Molise, for example, the capitol is Campobasso. The locals refer to it as 'Campo-ash' (sp?).

Yet another example.

In Italian, young boy = ragazzo. In dialect - 'oochitla' (sp?)
Young girl = ragazza. In dialect - 'achitla' (sp?)
Upstairs = sopra. In dialect - 'ingup' (sp?)
Downstairs = sotto. In dialect - 'bal' (sp?)

[SunkenCiv]

Many, many thanks to all. This is without doubt the most replies ever sent in a topic I started. I guess there's a real need for Etruscan coverage, eh?

Prost1: The Trojans were Etruscans. The Etruscans were most likely Semites. imo...

RightWhale: That is radical. Has anyone else besides you ever put forth that hypothesis?

feinswinesuksass: Well, then Etruscans must be from Israel.

Cyclone Covey, if memory serves, claims that Linear A is Semitic. Barry Fell's view was that Linear A belongs in the Anatolian group of tongues, and showed a number of correspondences. My view is that Fell is correct, Covey isn't, and that the Etruscans were one part of a larger ethnic group which once used Linear A on Crete (and elsewhere), was seafaring, colonized around the Mediterranean prior to and during the Phoenician diaspora, and some other stuff.

Regarding feinswinesuksass' joke, it's delicious in context, because British Israelism (and variants) is related to something that happened during (if memory serves) the British Empire. A poetic work was written (possibly commissioned by the gov't) in which a Trojan named Brutus, like his countryman Aeneas, sailed away after the Fall of Troy, searching for a new home, and with his compatriots, found it in Britain.

martin_fierro: Etruscany.

You've cracked it! :')

Drammach: If I recall correctly, Etruscans also claim the earliest use of conrcrete/cement construction in Italy. Not sure if it was used earlier than that, but it was the Etruscans that introduced it to Roman architecture.

That could very well be, I'll see what I can find about it. They definitely taught the Romans a number of quintessentially Roman things, such as roadbuilding, tunnelling, and other civil engineering stuff, and of course, the very altered and modified "games".

neb52: Have you read "The Etruscan" by Werner Keller(1974). He theorized they were remnants of Lydia. I guess he wasn't to far off?

Uh-oh. I'm not sure that I don't have that book around here. This place will someday have a landslide of junk and bury me alive. Of course, apropos to your reply, I'll probably find the Werner book while waiting to be found. The view that the Etruscans came from the Aegean was current (heh) in classical times, and led to things like the Aeneid. Schliemann was correct about "prehistoric" pottery and such during his excavation of Hissarlik, and also figured that there must have been a Lydian level of occupation, which he felt free to ignore (and dig straight through). I'm not of the school that thinks Schliemann was Eichmann though.

NYer: Interesting. There are many small villages in southeastern Italy whose dialects retain certain Etruscan words and expressions. In the Province of Molise, for example, the capitol is Campobasso. The locals refer to it as 'Campo-ash' (sp?).

Yet another example.

In Italian, young boy = ragazzo. In dialect - 'oochitla' (sp?)
Young girl = ragazza. In dialect - 'achitla' (sp?)
Upstairs = sopra. In dialect - 'ingup' (sp?)
Downstairs = sotto. In dialect - 'bal' (sp?)

I've got nothing to add, just felt it bore repeating. Fell's work on Etruscan found (if one doesn't reject Fell out of hand) that the Petrarchian Sonnet actually was already a traditional form in classical times, in Etruria.

ValerieUSA: But did the Etruscans have red hair?

I can dream, can't I? Ooh, baby.

PoorMuttly: ".....unaspirated voiceless plosives and of aspirated voiceless plosives....."

Reminds me, I've not been to Taco Bell in years.

wildbill: "The second post about the Etruscans was much more informative and interesting to me than a explication of parts of speech such as glottal stops which are understandable only by linguistic professors."

Thanks, glad you liked it.

mikrofon: That looks very interesting, but unfortunately it's all Greek to me...

That reminds me, I speak every language but Greek, and...

FreedomFarmer: "Sippin' away again, in Etruscanitta-ville..."

[sigh] Jimmy should start a restaurant, maybe buffet-style.

tet68: Lipstick Lemnians are hot!

I Sappho so...

RightWhale: Livy pretty much had the Etruscans populating the whole of Italy when the future Romans arrived and linked up with the Latins. Of course, the past was kind of murky even by that time. The future Romans supposedly were some survivors of the Trojan fiasco.

Fascinating I think that the Romans wanted an origin story that was both borrowed from their notorious rivals and involved descent from people defeated by the Greeks. Seems like they had a masochistic streak in their collective psyche.

[Ptarmigan]

Interesting stuff. I have read one theory that Etruscans are Polynesian people.

[Ptarmigan]

Interesting stuff. I have read one theory that Etruscans are Polynesian people.

[Rocky]

I believe that both of these languages are dead, are they not? If so, how do we know what they sounded like?