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To: rudy45
First, allow me to thank you for posting this. I am a huge Sig fan, and own a P239 in .357 Sig (of course).

I can't speak to all the technical issues, but I enjoy the "decocker" function because it allow me to safely lower the hammer after racking the slide to chamber the first round. Also, the hammer on my Sig DOES NOT have to be "down" to fire; once can cock the hammer and fire, or simply pull the trigger, just like a revolver. All Sigs, as far as I know, are DAO.

The hammer never should be in a cocked position, right?

One of the reasons I don't CCW a 1911 is for this very reason: most of the folks I know who carry one for personal protection leave the hammer cocked at all times, with the main safety engaged (there is, of course a secondary grip safety), but I've never been comfortable with it. Heck, I know one fella who doesn't even engage the main safety, but counts on the grip safety alone while carrying his 1911 (this I definitely wouldn't recommend). Probably more a matter of psychology than safety, but I've just never been comfortable with single-action "cocked and locked" for routine carry.

Just my $0.02.

3 posted on 08/06/2005 7:24:09 PM PDT by A Jovial Cad ("A man's character is his fate." - Heraclitus)
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To: A Jovial Cad
I think that's why Detonics were designed as they were. The rear sight was forward with a cut just to the rear and no grip safety. I think they liked the idea of keeping the hammer forward and then the shooter cocking when needed.

I carry in condition one myself. That's hammer back on a chambered round with the safety on.

6 posted on 08/06/2005 8:33:38 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: A Jovial Cad

Adding an additional .02

"First, allow me to thank you for posting this. I am a huge Sig fan, and own a P239 in .357 Sig (of course)."

I have friends (officers all) who own, shoot, and love their SIGs. I can't. The triggers always feel clunky, overtravel is prevalent in those I've fired, and even with the DAK, the pull is going through an arc that requires more training than is common in departments.

"I can't speak to all the technical issues, but I enjoy the "decocker" function because it allow me to safely lower the hammer after racking the slide to chamber the first round. Also, the hammer on my Sig DOES NOT have to be "down" to fire; once can cock the hammer and fire, or simply pull the trigger, just like a revolver. All Sigs, as far as I know, are DAO."

Standard (non-DAK, non-DAO) SIGs are Double Single action like their Beretta bretheren. I've carried a 1911 and never decock the device. Going from tactical carry to administrative doesn't involve lowering the hammer neither does going from admin back to tac carry. I'd recommend ISMI Silicon Carbide springs as they are VERY much less prone to take a set and deliver strong consistent throw throughout their life.


"The hammer never should be in a cocked position, right?

One of the reasons I don't CCW a 1911 is for this very reason: most of the folks I know who carry one for personal protection leave the hammer cocked at all times, with the main safety engaged (there is, of course a secondary grip safety), but I've never been comfortable with it. Heck, I know one fella who doesn't even engage the main safety, but counts on the grip safety alone while carrying his 1911 (this I definitely wouldn't recommend). Probably more a matter of psychology than safety, but I've just never been comfortable with single-action "cocked and locked" for routine carry."

I wouldn't recommend the grip safety only carry, but with the primary safety, the grip safety, and in the case of the series 80, the firing pin block, the pistol is mechanically well safed. This of course in light of Cooper's second and a half rule, "...place guarded trust in mechanical safeties." Frankly the main safety we all need is an alert and contientious mind (fortunately this is the case in nearly all the serious gunfolk I've encountered).

Outside of a shallower departmental training curve, the best reason I can see for the double action trigger is that second strike on a hard primer. Although, I can't recall when I've had that problem in anything but a reload, and then, seldom.

"Just my $0.02."

Up to .04,
Stay alert,

Top sends


7 posted on 08/07/2005 7:07:54 AM PDT by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG!!!!)
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To: A Jovial Cad
Same here; I used to carry a 1911 with cocked and locked. That was until I got home and tossed it on my bed - about a one foot drop.I know I'm going to get flamed except I had taken the hammer to half cock. When it hit the bed it went off; just missed my left knee and blew a hole on the bedroom closet door. I was using the “flying Ash Tray” round - 200 grain JHP..
After that I have been using a sig 226 since.
The DAO argument from what I can figure doesn't have anything to do with the transition between DA/SA modes. Maybe when you are “target” shooting.
The DAO issue has mainly to do with LAWYERS and Civil/Criminal neg. law suites.
How many times have you been yelled at by the trainer NOT TO COCK YOUR WEAPON when holding a perp at gun point? Reason is you are under allot of stress and fine motor skills go out the window. When the person you are giving orders to starts to jink and jerk around your PUCKER FACTOR GOES WAY WAY UP... YOU WILL START TO SQUEEZE YOUR WEAPON WITH YOUR HANDS VERY HARD. If you have cocked your weapon it will go bang without you noticing it and the “OH SH$T” factor kicks in..
That DAO pull won't be even noticed; BUT if you cock the hammer - you are looking at an almost 100% chance of an accidental discharge..
THAT IS WHY TRAINERS WILL DEMAND YOU INDEX YOUR FINGER AND NOT PUT IT IN THE TRIGGER GUARD ON THE TRIGGER.. You have to do this with a glock; you only put your finger on the trigger unless you are going to shoot.
There has been many demonstrations with a Glock where the test person thought they were taking up the trigger slack - except the Glock doesn't have any. What they were doing and the gun went off scaring them was taking the weapon from half cock to full cock and fire.
Every time I watch a show or movie and the person in it cocks their weapon - handgun etc. I cringe and curdle my toes.
The one reason previously mentioned is many agencies are using DAO weapons to to avoid the “Accidental Discharge” law suites. Even when you are in a lethal threat incident and your weapon is a DA/SA YOU WILL BE GRILLED AS TO IF YOU HAD EITHER COCKED YOUR WEAPON OR DID NOT; so as to avoid that attack in court DAO weapons are being used more and more. Also many people who were not raised around firearms and take up the carry or LEO profession.
There is a video on Youtube where I think it is LVMPD taking down a perp by a car; one officer is cuffing him while the perp is being covered by another office when she accidentally fires her weapon and the round striking the ground next to the perp’s head.
19 posted on 05/01/2010 5:47:46 PM PDT by menahunie
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