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It's Happening Again (We've Got Another Schiavo, Starving In GA, No Brain-Damage)
Media Release | 4-6-05 | The Family of Mae Magouirk

Posted on 04/07/2005 2:59:57 AM PDT by schmelvin

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To: All
Just posting a link to this FYI. I'm sure most are familiar. Consider the link as just a mini refresher course.

Old and New versions of the Hippocratic Oath

2,261 posted on 04/12/2005 9:13:58 AM PDT by sageb1
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To: MACVSOG68
Thank you.

I appreciate your taking my request seriously and taking the time to compose it.

I'm sorry if you took my quote that you posted at the top to mean your answer would be prejudged. The quote You copied, I am pretty sure, is how many have felt. It was only fair to stop the back and forth and say, "Look, this is the way you are coming off, is that what you meant, because if it was, there is no where that we can BOTH go with this."

I have some responses to your post, but first(now that there is a lull, I can go back and read the threads) I am taking your suggestion and reading back over your comments and the various threads.

Once again, I do appreciate your response. I am sure I am not the only one.

2,262 posted on 04/12/2005 9:18:10 AM PDT by mother22wife21 ( "My super power is dancing" -my five year old daughter)
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Comment #2,263 Removed by Moderator

To: mother22wife21

Thank you.


2,264 posted on 04/12/2005 9:21:22 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: eeevil conservative

That's okay, I didn't think you meant that. I think some times our fingers get ahead of our brains. Or is that vice versa? LOL!


2,265 posted on 04/12/2005 9:22:46 AM PDT by mother22wife21 ( "My super power is dancing" -my five year old daughter)
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To: schmelvin
Amen, schmelvin.

In one of the Terri threads, I posted about how my grandmother's post-stroke assessment was in error. The doctor told all of us she was brain dead, there was no hope. We should remove the respirator.

I was pretty young when this happened, so I don't recall how long it was before the respirator was removed. My grandma started getting better.

It turned out this doctor had been assessing my grandmother based on no responsiveness in one of her eyes. The one that was GLASS!

Then, we were told by a different doctor that she had brittle bone disease, so we shouldn't start any PT. Months later, another doctor spoke with my mom and questioned why we hadn't started any PT. Mom told him about the brittle bone dx. He said, "Didn't anyone tell you, we did more tests and she doesn't have brittle bone disease."

Sigh.

(On the other thread, I was trying to show why _I_ wouldn't necessarily take a doctor at his/her word. I was told that my story didn't apply, btw.
2,266 posted on 04/12/2005 9:52:17 AM PDT by green pastures
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To: sageb1
Adding to my own post in re: The Hippocratic Oath.

This seems to be the third and most recent version. Notice this part "will give no drug, perform no operation, for a criminal purpose, even if solicited, far less suggest it."

This is what those who are in favor of assisted suicide and euthanasia must get past, or overturn, in the thinking of society - that it is not "criminal" to give a patient lethal drugs or to "let them die" if that is their wish.

Not exactly what Hippocrates had in mind...

One version, approved by the American Medical Association, is as follows:

You do solemnly swear, each by whatever he or she holds most sacred:

That you will be loyal to the Profession of Medicine and just and generous to its members.

That you will lead your lives and practice your art in uprightness and honor.

That into whatsoever house you shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick to the utmost of your power, your holding yourselves far aloof from wrong, from corruption, from the tempting of others to vice.

That you will exercise your art solely for the cure of your patients, and will give no drug, perform no operation, for a criminal purpose, even if solicited, far less suggest it.

That whatsoever you shall see or hear of the lives of men or women which is not fitting to be spoken, you will keep inviolably secret.

These things do you swear. Let each bow the head in sign of acquiescence. And now, if you will be true to this, your oath, may prosperity and good repute be ever yours; the opposite, if you shall prove yourselves forsworn.

And one more interesting link on The Physician's Charter

2,267 posted on 04/12/2005 10:07:56 AM PDT by sageb1
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To: sageb1
I don't know if this has been posted here or on the main news page. This was in my local paper today:

FDA issues warning on use of certain anti-psychotic drugs by elderly patients

WASHINGTON - Elderly patients with dementia were significantly more likely to die prematurely if taking certain anti-psychotic drugs, the government said Monday in an advisory to health care workers and patients.

The Food and Drug Administration is asking manufacturers of atypical anti-psychotic drugs to add to their labeling a boxed warning noting the risks and that the drugs were not approved to treat symptoms of dementia in the elderly.

The drugs were approved for treating schizophrenia and mania, and include such brands as Abilify, Zyprexa, Seroquel, Risperdal, Clozaril and Geodon. Symbyax, which is approved for the treatment of depression associated with bipolar disorder, is also included in the advisory.

Interesting. My bf was on ativan when he died. He had taken Seroquel and Clozeran prior to the ativan.

2,268 posted on 04/12/2005 10:45:12 AM PDT by sageb1
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To: Believer In Truth
It doesn't say dementia

Go to either one, Pdf pg.7 or the WND fax pg.7 it says the following in the paragraph labeled "Order" and signed by Judge Boyd.

"...The Court finds that the Ward, Ora Mae Magouirk, is suffering from dementia, an aortic aneurism and a blood clot...."

2,269 posted on 04/12/2005 1:17:28 PM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: Believer In Truth
The quote from the FINAL ORDER ... doesn't say dementia.

The order recites,

"and after having reviewed the petition, the Court finds that the ward, Ora Mae Magouirk, is suffering from dementia, has an aorta aneurism, and a blood clot."
Nobody has produced evidence that this recitation has any basis other than the petition of Gaddy. Note too, the recitation includes three medical determinations. Dementia. Aorta aneurism. Blood clot. All of these are based on, and taken from Gaddy's sworn petition of April 1st.
2,270 posted on 04/12/2005 2:25:15 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt

"Other doctors held that Mae's best interest involved medical treatment that was not available at hospice."

The heart specialists in LaGrange couldn't treat her?


2,271 posted on 04/12/2005 3:13:19 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: schmelvin
http://www.blogsforterri.com/archives/2005/04/david_gibbs_law.php <--

April 12, 2005

David Gibbs Law Firm To Advise McLeod-Mullinax Family: Alabama Advocacy Center Joins Fray

Per email from Ken Mullinax:
David Gibbs, the lead attorney for Terri Schiavo's natural family, has agreed to allow Ken Mullinax to publicly state that "David Gibbs is now advising the McLeod-Mullinax family in regards to Mae Magouirk." They will be doing a teleconference with him tomorrow. The Alabama Advocacy Center at the University of Alabama Law School is now investigating this case after today speaking with Jim Tucker, lead litigator. Elder abuse is one of the many avenues they will look into in regards with Mae Magouirk.

Ken Mullinax is to appear on Sean Hannity tonight(Hannity-Colmes) between 830pm and 900pm CST.

Posted by richard at April 12, 2005 02:22 PM


2,272 posted on 04/12/2005 3:18:22 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Smartaleck

NO! They are the ones that said she was not treatable in the first place. They are the ones that recommended Hospice to Gaddy.

Plus- Ruth has been treated by UAB for the same condition and knows they are BETTER equipped----

And all 3 doctors agreed...


2,273 posted on 04/12/2005 3:22:01 PM PDT by eeevil conservative (Don't Change Minds, Change Lives! Sherri Reese)
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To: mother22wife21
"Well, what do you say? How would you have handled it?"

One, inform the judge first who was under the impression she was OK.....that is, she was being being fed cared for etc.. At least that's what I gathered from his e-mail.

Two, the family apparently reached an agreement according to the court documents and everyone signed off on it. If one of the parties is NOT abiding by the agreement bring this to the judges attention.

Beyond that it's difficult to say. She has an Aorta Aneurysm which has a mortality rate during an operation of about 10-15%...relatively low risk. Those stats don't state the age of the patients so it's hard to say what they would be in older patients. Someone mentioned her sister had the same problem. Is Marfa's syndrome apparent...a hereditary anomaly?
Has she been hypertensive for a long time which can lead to dementia and weakened kidneys....all of which make for a more risky operation. Some doctors feel they can succeed treating her and others apparently differ. Has Ken said why the doctors hadn't acted in a more timely manner? Is there any info that she wasn't being hydrated other than Ken's word?
2,274 posted on 04/12/2005 3:25:05 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck
The heart specialists in LaGrange couldn't treat her?

Beats me. I wasn't on the panel of doctors that made the decision.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1381143/posts?q=1&&page=71#71 <--

Note: Dr. Stout, Mae's attending Dr. in LaGrange, said in so many words that he would ignore Mae's Living Will since he felt her quality of life and outlook for recovery was grim at best. However, it seems that the panel of three doctors thought there must be a chance because they reported back to Judge Boyd, according to the settlement our lawyer, Jack Kirby crafted and wrote for the court, and Mae is now in UAB Medical Center.

10. In Judge Boyd's court decree order(Civil Action, Estate 138-05, dated April, 2005) it states:

"The guardian shall see that Dr. Brennan, Dr. Gore, Dr. Aqel evaluate/and or examine the ward (Mae Magouirk) for the purpose of determining whether any medical treatment should be pursued for her aortic aneurism. If at least two of the three doctors agree that there is a viable course of treatment for the aortic aneurism, then, in that event, the petitioner(Beth Gaddy) shall follow the recommendation of the doctors who agree to such a course of treatment, including the location and manner of treatment to be provided."


2,275 posted on 04/12/2005 3:25:51 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Smartaleck
Is there any info that she wasn't being hydrated other than Ken's word? YES! In fact I heard the judge admit to this. Right out of his mouth! On Glenn Beck.
2,276 posted on 04/12/2005 3:30:35 PM PDT by eeevil conservative (Don't Change Minds, Change Lives! Sherri Reese)
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To: Smartaleck
The heart specialists in LaGrange couldn't treat her?

A few more details, I remain curious too.

Cardiologist James Brennan was Mae's cardiologist in LaGrange. He is listed as a specialist at WGHS (the facility that Mae was admitted to in Georgia, and has since been removed from).

Cradiologist Thomas Gore is also of LaGrange, and is also listed as practicing at WGHS.

http://www.wghs.org/p-specialty.html

The doctors determined that Mae Magouirks aortic dissection is contained and not presently life threatening. I.e., she isn't terminal.

Obviously, at least one other doctor disagrees (or did), since Mae had to be certified terminal in order to be admitted to hospice. I assume that the doctor who certified Mae as terminal was Dr. Stout (sp?).

2,277 posted on 04/12/2005 3:57:58 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Smartaleck
The heart specialists in LaGrange couldn't treat her?

No, they could not. They are not a state-of-the-art facility, they are a small town hospital.

When my stepfather had a stroke, we moved him from the podunkville hospital he was in (which had advised us to discontinue all care and "let" him die) to the state-of-the-art Barnes Hospital in St. Louis, where he was diagnosed as "able to be rehabilitated" (and his condition greatly improved once we undertook rehabilitation).

2,278 posted on 04/12/2005 3:59:04 PM PDT by schmelvin
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To: Cboldt
Just because I've been called a idiot pagan doesn't make me one ;-)

LOL True.

Mae has been receiving the best of care by "world class" doctors in UAB for a few days now. Has she revoked the POA? Or disputed the guardianship?

2,279 posted on 04/12/2005 4:06:40 PM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: RGSpincich
Mae has been receiving the best of care by "world class" doctors in UAB for a few days now. Has she revoked the POA? Or disputed the guardianship?

I believe Mae's financial POA to Gaddy is at least temporarily not operative, and that Gaddy has both financial and medical powers (circumscribed by the court order to abide by the treatment regimen prescribed by the three doctor team) as granted by the court order of April 4.

The objection to Gaddy's guardianship was dismissed by the court (not noting whether the dismissal was with or without prejudice; I assume it was without). I don't believe another objection has been filed. I do think that the family is in disagreement as to who should be the "permanent" guardian. Gaddy's guardianship letter expires 45 days after April 1, or when a petition for regular guardianship is heard, whichever comes sooner.

2,280 posted on 04/12/2005 4:16:16 PM PDT by Cboldt
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