*New* The FreeRepublic Saddle Club - Who's Who *pics*
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Posted on 01/31/2005 8:31:31 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
*New* The FreeRepublic Saddle Club - Who's Who *pics*
Free Republic has a lot of horse people that have found each other on other threads…. And since we all like to talk horses, how about a thread where it is not off-topic, but is THE topic?
This is a horse chat thread where we share ideas, ask for input from other horsemen, and talk about our riding and horse-keeping. We have a lot of different kinds of riders and horses, and a lot to share. In the previous threads we have had a great time talking through lessons, training, horse lamenesses, illnesses and pregnancies... and always sharing pictures and stories.
I always have a link to this thread on my profile page, so if you have something to say and can't find the thread in latest posts… look for it there and wake the thread up!
I also have a ping list for horse threads that are of interest, and Becky pings everyone most mornings. Let Becky (Paynoattentionmanbehindthecurtain) and/or me know if you would like to be on the ping list. As FreeRepublic is a political site, our politics and other issues will probably blend in…. There are many issues for horsemen that touch politics… land use, animal rights/abuse cases that make the news…. Legislation that might affect horse owners.
So... like the previous threads, this is intended as fun place to come and share stories, pictures, questions and chit-chat, unguided and unmoderated and that we come together here as friends. There are lots of ways of doing things and we all have our quirks, tricks and specialties that are neat to learn about.
Previous threads:
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - thread ONE
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - Thread TWO!
The FreeRepublic Saddle Club thread - Thread THREE!
New folk and occasional posters, jump right in and introduce yourselves, tell us about your horses, and post pictures if you've got them!
Well this was not bycicle chain, just smooth like curb chain, but I still never liked it, but had never tried it. I really don't thik it is "that" harsh, depending mostly on your hands, except for on the corners of their mouth. But Rusty didn't really need that even not being all that harsh. Rusty's problems are still more me then him:) It's hard for an old dog to learn new tricks.
Becky
Are you the old dog in this scenario? or is he? ;~D
I don't have a problem with trying new things, pretty much anything goes with me. I just think someone who is trying to pass themselves off as a "professional trainer" would know how to train without something so harsh. Could you see Clinton Anderson or John Lyons using a bicycle chain?
LOL
we had that problem too for a while, deaconjim did something and we no longer have to worry. I know your concerns. I will ask him what he did to eradicate the problem. : ) look out for his answer, he may reply private to you.
Sharn
I'm the old dog:) Rusty's only 7.
Harley did pretty good too. They both are just suffering from not being rode enough. I hope the last two day cold spell we had is it.
Seems like I get started then have to quit.
Becky
The thing is is YES, I can see those guys using that kind of stuff.
Becky
What's new.... I have received many many more sad reports today and two survivor stories. The extent of this has grown to include South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Ohio, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and up state New York. I have updated this sheet so it can serve as a reference for vets. We now have 4 survivors and all were started on antibiotics early. This in itself tends to discredit Botulism, despite the fact that many of the symptoms are a great match. About 20% did not feed round bales, and nasal discharge has been added to the symptoms, although it is only reported in a minority of cases, it might simply be overlooked. It is very pervasive to be botulism in my opinion. Although unusual weather conditions could account for this, botulism is almost unheard of in SW Virginia, and we have more cases every day in this area.
Some of the cases reported to me today are such a close match that the only difference between them and my experience is the name of the horse! Frankly, I never expected anything like this response and am rapidly getting over my head here. I will try tomorrow to get the state vets to take this on.
Obviously some of these deaths may be other disorders but the symptoms are unique enough to be very alarming. I have also been asked several questions which this message should answer. Let me say that I am not a veterinarian and am not trying to play one. I am very much hoping that I will get this far enough along that the veterinary community will pick up on it and take the ball. I have two who are beginning to do just that.
Symptoms and known facts..... I am calling this Whisper Syndrome until we know what it is. Here are updated facts. This disease is devastating and kills very fast. You must catch it early and hit it with antibiotics, but do not take this to mean a vet does not need to be involved, just make sure he is given this information.
Stage 1 symptoms: The most reliable early indication is inability to finish meals or complete lack of appetite. Strange uncharacteristic, isolated stumble, trip, stretching step, head gesture, or other apparently neurological sign. These are often dismissed due to age or other factors. Turning head sideways while lying down in apparent peace (not looking at flanks like colic). Pawing at floor of stall, and or circling. Change of habitual patterns of behavior / confusion. Some of these symptoms obviously mimic colic, but rolling and looking back at the sides is not common. They also mimic other disorders ranging from West Nile to salmonella.
Horse will commonly lay down to rest in apparent peace during early stage. If they do this at a time or place that is uncustomary, it is a warning. This may be accompanied by the turning of the head sideways. Nasal discharge has been present in several cases and it contains both fungi and bacteria. Bloody nasal discharge has been reported in one case with otherwise classic symptoms.
Lack of appetite or chewing but not swallowing. Aversion to water. Dehydration. No elevated temperature, and possibly a subnormal temperature (96-99.8 is typical). Blood work will show drop in lymphocytes. Heart rate may not be elevated, and may even be depressed. Some signs of colic (caused by colitis that results). It is often treated as colic, losing critical time and resulting in death. Even if your vet is relatively sure you are dealing with colic, have him or her run blood tests immediately or start Naxcel as a precaution until you know what you are dealing with.
Stage 2 symptoms: Difficulty walking or refusal to move from a standing position. Difficulty getting up. Sudden collapse. Shivering. Colitis is a symptom which can cause loose and even foul smelling stools. Bloody stool has been reported in one case which is consistent with severe colitis. Severe diarrhea is reported as is strange stools with small pellets. While not caused by parasites, the syndrome is probably aggravated by them.
White count may or may not elevate.
Stage 3 symptoms: Shock, seizures, erratic breathing, death
Death results in 12 hours to 4 days. No horses reported have survived other than four who were given Naxcel, but penicillin may work. We are assuming here that survivors all had Whisper syndrome, but this is a reasonable assumption. Our two survivors occurred within weeks of each other and bracketed Whisper's death. The other two had absolutely classic symptoms. The occurrence among horses at the same facility at one to eight week intervals is common among horses who have died of the syndrome. Antibiotics are often not prescribed in time because of the lack of a temperature. Blood work should be done immediately to determine if the antibiotics are indicated.
It strikes multiple horses at a single facility and in most but not all cases it is horses that are eating round bales. It does not appear to be communicable from horse to horse, at least directly. It may be communicated via feces but this is only speculation. It strikes where no horses have entered the population for months or years. It strikes in facilities that are well managed and clean. If there has been the death of one or more horses with these symptoms, it is crucial to watch the others very closely.
What Whisper Symptom is: It could be botulism but vets are in disagreement on the likelihood of this because it appears to respond to antibiotics better than would be expected with botulism. Tests will prove or disprove one classic case in two weeks, but the fact that the only four known survivors were treated with antibiotics tends to counter indicate botulism. Also the classic paralysis of the tongue is not present in Whisper syndrome although the eating and swallowing problems are a close match to botulism symptoms.
It is probably bacterial in nature given its apparent response to antibiotics. It may also have a fungal component in the nasal cavity that is not understood. It may simply be opportunistic. It is far deadlier than moldy hay (which is bad enough). It does not cause liver damage. Slight brain swelling may be evident at necropsy.
What we know Whisper syndrome is NOT: It is not believed to be related to mold, although mold may be present. It is not EPM. It is not Rhino or EHV-1 (Equine Herpes Virus) There is a serious outbreak of EHV-1 in Virginia right now. please read http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05057/463330.stm It is not West Nile virus. It is not Rabies (although some symptoms look like rabies).
Where: Owners in South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, Ohio, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and upstate New York have all reported similar cases. The location of other cases is not yet determined and it may be more widely spread. There is an intense cluster in Virginia. Some cases date back two years, but most are very recent.
If you have seen these symptoms or if you lose or have lost a horse to similar symptoms please try to have a necropsy done by a state laboratory (not an individual vet), and please let me know right away. Hollandtech @ earthlink . net (remove spaces). Ask them to test for botulism (this requires injecting a mouse).
Here is what I will need to know:
How many of the symptoms were present? Were multiple horses at the facility and were others affected? What treatment was given and what were the results? Were round bales being fed? Was anything fed from the ground? Was feed tested? Where did this occur and how recently. Was a necropsy performed? Can we have access to it?
Thanks, and I pray I will not hear of more deaths. There were two deaths last night and one this morning reported to me. Each reminds me of the terrible death of Whisper. Please cross post at will. You do not need my further permission to do so.
Thank you,
John Holland
Ok, thanks.
She's fine. Sick of being fat and pregnant, lays her head on my shoulder when I go out.
I was just going to post EXACTLY what you did!
I wonder WHY this guy recommends that Naxcel? Is it better than penicillin? Is it an OTC item?
This is TOO weird.
It almost sounds like a bio-attack.
It sounds more like a virus like west nile than botulism or feed. And I really think west nile was a bio attack but that's just the paranoid in me speaking. I don't know what Naxcel is either. I've never used it.
"Even when he insults me, it puts a smile on my face.."
Then I'm doing something wrong!
"Sick of being fat and pregnant"
I know just how she feels.
Do you ever do anything right?
Yes, I understand how she feels exactly. The last couple of weeks are always the worst. :)
It's remarkable certainly.
Do you have ad-aware? If so, make sure that your definitions are current and run it again. Do a full deep system scan. Also, download Mozilla or Firefox Do you have a PC? If you do, download either one of those browsers and stop using IE. It'll stop all of your spyware and pop up issues cold. If you have a Mac, download Safari. I'm speaking from experience. IE is a piece of crap. Oh, also download Zone Alarm Free edition for a firewall if you aren't already running one. (If you have a PC)
I do have ad-aware and it's all current. As soon as I get a popup, I stop what I'm doing, close it out and run adaware. It always catches it and cleans it then everything is fine for a few days. I'll be happily surfing around and suddenly, nasty pop-up! Really pisses me off.
I have a PC. I do use internet explorer. I think I have mozilla, I'll have to ask my husband, the computer geek. He works on my computer all the time but I know he gets tired of me bugging him so I try to figure out things for myself before I ask him for help.
I had a nasty pop up this morning, I ran ad aware and I haven't had any pop ups since. I know they are out there, stalking me, waiting for the moment when my kids are watching what I'm doing, then WHAMMO.
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