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MY CinC GOT HIS HEAD HANDED TO HIM!
A Navy Vet ^ | 9-30-2004 | A Navy Vet

Posted on 09/30/2004 10:40:34 PM PDT by A Navy Vet

Without reading the other aricles/posts, I believe President Bush got his head handed to him in the debate tonight. I can't believe how inarticulate he was and with such a smug look on his face while looking for his answerrs.

More importantly, I was disappointed that with Kerry's babblings about coalitions that Bush did not speak of sovereignty until his closing remarks. I was also disappointed that Bush did not tell Kerry there is no way of knowing the intricacies of the innner circle's state policies.

And why did it take Bush in his closing comments to finally make the point of keeping terrorism offshore? He eluded to that frequently in his remarks about being on the "offensesive", but didn't make it clear to the average American about taking the fight to them.

Also, I kept hearing "talking points" from Bush, which is usually the demcRATs M.O.

He just lost 5 points in his lead; there's a big difference between a leader and an articluate speaker without sustance...e.g. clinton. That said, JoeSixPak and Soccor Mom believe what sounds good. They have no concept of a leader who may not be schmoozer from a competenant manager who doens't talk well, but does the walk.

(Excerpt) Read more at vetscor.org ...


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KEYWORDS: breakingnewsabuse; bush; debate; firstdebate; kerry; military; toomanyvanities; waytoomanyvanities
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To: A Navy Vet

Also, the hard thing about these debates is that the President doesn't have all that much to gain from them. He has a margin that's likely about as big as it will get, and his mission is mainly just to hold onto that margin. Kerry needs every bit of help he can get, these debates are his last hope, meaning he's much more likely to speak out, to take chances, if you will.


41 posted on 09/30/2004 11:06:00 PM PDT by SoDak
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To: CindyDawg
I can remember most of what he said and little of JK's.

Precisely. GWB sold his position -- and did what he needed to at the end: asked for our votes. Kerry didn't do that. A small thing, but telling.

42 posted on 09/30/2004 11:06:26 PM PDT by Exigence
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To: A Navy Vet
Remember, clinton won the presidency twice by being a strong convincing communicator.

Why is that applicable here? I saw nothing about Kerry that was convincing tonight. I'll give him smooth. I'll give him polished. But smooth and polished don't necessarily lead to convincing.

Whatever Clinton's faults, he was good at connecting to the folks. Bush did a far, far better job of communicating to the folks tonight than Kerry did. Kerry probably picked up a few votes, but votes that would likely have come his way in the end anyway.

43 posted on 09/30/2004 11:09:37 PM PDT by Exigence
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To: flashbunny

Your post is right on. Kerry looked desperate to me. Bush made such nice remarks about the Kerry girls.. and you know he meant it. I think Kerry was taken aback! He doesn't know how to be gracious without it looking fake. Bush is the real deal and I think it showed tonight.


44 posted on 09/30/2004 11:10:37 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: CindyDawg

I saw JK very polished and saying unbelievable stuff that is going to be on transcript and cause him grief.




"Global Test Kerry"
"Global Test Kerry"
"Global Test Kerry"
"Global Test Kerry"
"Global Test Kerry"
"Global Test Kerry"

yup me too...

"no bunker busters kerry"
"no bunker busters kerry"
"no bunker busters kerry"
"no bunker busters kerry"
"no bunker busters kerry"

he said it smoothly nuanced, and spray painted his excremental sculptures with golden leaf, but all us Americans got it: That is, that American's in John Kerry's view, have no National Sovereignty without the permission of France and/or Germany.

SCREW john kerry. Smooth as plaited crap, but still as stinky and pinky as ever... and every soccer mom and dad in america heard him say it in his prettiest voice.

Like Zell said.
"Kerry want's France to decide what we can and cannot do with our troops. I want BUSH to decide." (my translation)


45 posted on 09/30/2004 11:11:07 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
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To: A Navy Vet
I couldn't disagree with you more.

Since you are so critical of the man that we know is honest and is truly trying to protect this country, would you mind giving an explanation of what Kerry said or proposed that would make anyone choose him over Bush for the war on terror or homeland security?

That was the debate topic and I'd guess that the much touted "undecideds" tuned in to hear Kerry's plan. What was it? We know the president's.

What exactly caused Bush to place his head on that platter? Did I miss something?

46 posted on 09/30/2004 11:12:48 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis (FR = A pajama party 24/7)
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To: A Navy Vet

Hey - I think everyone agrees Bush wasn't up to his normal speed - but don't make a federal case here - on just one debate. I'm hurting for Bush - and have already made sure one more person will be voting in Nov. in this election. That was my response to tonight - I also intend to get cash(what I can spare) to those in need of support -

It's okay to moan, I'm doing it - but get out and take that extra step to prevent this nation from suffering any more damage from the likes of Kerry and his ilk -

just my thoughts -


47 posted on 09/30/2004 11:12:49 PM PDT by Pastnowfuturealpha
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To: A Navy Vet

"I'm merely saying that Kerry articulated his points and was more focused than our President."

He DIDN'T articulate his points - maybe his attacks, but NOT his points. He didn't really have any. Nothing very memorable, anyway.

Bush did the same thing he always does -stay on message and repeat it often (and repeat and repeat). BTW, that's the way every democrat he's faced said he's defeated them.


48 posted on 09/30/2004 11:14:46 PM PDT by flashbunny (John Kerry: The Boston Flailer!)
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To: bonfire
G.W. Bush's biggest mistake was not pointing out ONCE John Kerry's 20 year senate record! - Showing how he has a record of cutting defense and Intelligence -

Showing how he has a record that was wrong on the COLD WAR...WRONG on the first GULF WAR , etc -

I cannot understand how G.W. Bush NEVER brought up Kerry's 20 year Senate record!!! - not ONCE???

49 posted on 09/30/2004 11:15:32 PM PDT by Khaosai
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To: Khaosai

He did say he respected Kerry for his service in the Senate but didn't like his "record".


50 posted on 09/30/2004 11:16:47 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: bonfire
He did say he respected Kerry for his service in the Senate but didn't like his "record".

Yes, that was it - But the average swing voter out there thinks that is just a political type statement -

G.W. Bush needed to be somewhat specific about National Security and Kerry's 20 year record of being WRONG -

It blows me away that Kerry got out of there without having to defend ONCE his 20 year voting record.

It completely showed Jim Lehrer's bias that he didn't bring it up ONCE either as a question -

51 posted on 09/30/2004 11:18:47 PM PDT by Khaosai
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To: Khaosai
I cannot understand how G.W. Bush NEVER brought up Kerry's 20 year Senate record!!! - not ONCE???

He did. He said he didn't like it. He also mentioned a number of recent votes and some back to the first Gulf War. But, in a 90-second format, you have to go with big ideas over nitty gritty. I think Bush did a better job of repeating the big ideas than Kerry did -- although Kerry has certainly improved. He'll probably pick up some Kerry-leaning undecideds. He won't pick off any of Bush's votes -- and he must have some of those to win.

52 posted on 09/30/2004 11:20:16 PM PDT by Exigence
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To: Exigence
"Secondly, the average American doesn't want to be finessed."

With due respect, you are SO wrong. Finess is what kept clinton in office for 8 years. Clinton was the beginning of our now Bachelor, Fear Factor, Apprentice society who only wants to experience the superficial parts of our society.

Bush is sincere, but his uh's and duh's and repeated general talking points are no match for a kerryclinonesque smooth talking style.

Americans no longer look at substance and results, they are enamored with sweet talk and promises and style. This is a fact.

53 posted on 09/30/2004 11:20:23 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.opgratitude.com)
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To: MadAnthony1776
I didn't think Bush did as bad as some people think."""

Gosh, that's a ringing endorsement of his performance!

54 posted on 09/30/2004 11:21:45 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: Khaosai

I didn't like the silence either. Can't remember what it was but GB said something that made me laugh and he kind of stopped like "yall didn't think that was funny?". Maybe it's against debating rules but some clapping might have gotten the two of them fired up a little more.


55 posted on 09/30/2004 11:22:31 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: A Navy Vet
Americans no longer look at substance and results, they are enamored with sweet talk and promises and style. This is a fact.

Your saying it doesn't make it a fact.

Here's a fact. Flash polls after the first Bush-Gore debate gave it clearly to Gore. Smoother, sighs notwithstanding. Better style. Won the debate...

A few days later, polls gave the debate to Bush by 8 points. Initial impressions fade as folks begin to ponder the substance.

56 posted on 09/30/2004 11:23:02 PM PDT by Exigence
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To: CindyDawg
Maybe it's against debating rules but some clapping might have gotten the two of them fired up a little more.

Bite your tongue. At a university headed by Donna Shalaya -- where she gave out the tickets! It would have been the ultimate stacked deck.

BTW, look for a stacked deck in St. Louis, particularly with Charlie Gibson moderating.

57 posted on 09/30/2004 11:24:54 PM PDT by Exigence
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To: Khaosai

Got to agree..we all agree that GB isn't the world's greatest speaker. And so he comes off on TV as hesitant
and a bumbler.

However those who have watched him for the last 4 years know that his heart, intellect and passion is for the U.S.
and he has an iron resolution to defend the U.S.

He cares for and loves the troops. Kerry is a good debater, however all of his thoughts and actions show his
selfish positions and lack of judgement.

He is typical Eastern, holier than thou liberal, who has NO
idea of how you and I live or does he care.

God bless GW and the USA.

Big D in K.C.


58 posted on 09/30/2004 11:25:07 PM PDT by Duaine (Peace is our profession....)
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To: A Navy Vet
Americans no longer look at substance and results, they are enamored with sweet talk and promises and style. This is a fact.

If that were the case Al would be president right now:')

59 posted on 09/30/2004 11:25:07 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: olliemb
"PErhaps you were expecting Bush to clobber Kerry--"

No, I was hoping for Bush to use SO many openings regarding the WOT to make a more forceful point. What I saw, was platitudes and soundbites. Look, I've known from 2000 that President Bush is not a great orator, but he's had almost 4 years to refine his "talking points" and they were simply weak.

However, knowing that a strong manager is not always the best PR voice for an organization, I will continue to support him against our WOT.

60 posted on 09/30/2004 11:26:51 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (www.opgratitude.com)
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