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Thread III: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1311311/posts |
Posted on 04/26/2004 12:06:41 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
Free Republic has a lot of horse people that have found each other on other threads…. And since we all like to talk horses, how about a thread where it is not off-topic, but is THE topic?
A few of us thought it would be interesting and informative to have a chat thread where we can share ideas, ask for input from other horsemen, and talk about our riding and horse-keeping. We have a lot of different kinds of riders and horses, and a lot to share. We may not ~always~ have a lot of activity, but when we do, it will be fun. I will put a link to this thread on my profile page, so if you have something to say and can't find the thread in latest posts… look for it there and wake the thread up!
I will also develop a ping list for horse threads that are of interest. As FreeRepublic is a political site, our politics and other issues will probably blend in…. There are many issues for horsemen that touch politics… land use, animal rights/abuse cases that make the news…. Legislation that might affect horse owners.
I am hoping this thread will be a fun place to come and share stories, pictures, questions and chit-chat, unguided and unmoderated and that we come together here as friends. There are lots of ways of doing things and we all have our quirks, tricks and specialties that are neat to learn about.
Well look at it this way. If they change their minds you get a horse back that is trained to jump for free. Ought to make his price go up.
Same thing happened here. Okie had shoes 2-3 times and then the last set just started coming off. The nails were breaking from the hoof.
isnt hunter seat equitation about the rider's form more than the horse's form or something?
Equitation is merely the judging of the rider's position and correctness, without the horse's performance being particularly judged. There is English and Western Equitation classes in shows, and they are the measure for young riders usually. Equitation can also be looked at as the place where a good rider can still win on a less than perfect 'looking' horse. Equitation can sometimes be the last competitive place for the old show veteran horses to retire to. None of this sounds like your horse, right? Well, an 'equitation' horse is merely one that is so easy and undistracting to ride, and has such easy gaits and transitions he can make a rider look good.
Equitation classes are good for young riders. They focus them on correct position, they are and should be a schooling class to prepare for the bigger wins later.
I would call a horse green that was young and hadn't been anywhere yet. He hasn't ~been~ shown, hasn't been jumped, and in that setting, he's green. But you're right. I would say he is young, but he's not 'greenbroke', he's finished. He just hasn't been shown yet. I'd say that in all fairness though, he's green until he's shown he can handle crowds and lights and new arenas with a child on him like a veteran.
They seem to be wanting to be so careful that they choose the perfect horse for this child, I wonder if they've ever told her she might only get a second place the first time out.
If they aren't writing checks by the end of the week, go get him. They may be like my dad looking at boats... loves to look, but he's unable to make a decision in a world with a lot of subjective variations.
Well yeah, except I don't want him to jump:)
That was the whole point I was uncomfortable with them taking him for so long. I don't want him to jump, I wouldn't know how to go about training him further....
I think this is a case of these people wanting to be 100% for sure of every little thing on "their" agenda. IMO:), that's not being fair/honest to me. The horse has done everything I told him he would, "PLUS" going over small jumps easily. The rest should be their risk. Buy him like he is or don't but don't expect him to be fully trained before you buy. They knew when I took him he had not had any of that training
Am I making sense? Are my expectations wrong?
If I look at a horse that is not barrel trained, I don't expect the seller to wait to let me see how good a barrel horse he will be before I buy. I know that is a risk I have to take.
Becky
Well, what would be the point of an expert looking at him to decide if he will work as an equiation horse for the kid. Wouldn't that be more up to the kid. And is there any good reason for this expert to be a palomino expert?
I agree. I think they are being too careful, and I can understand in one sense with a kid that young. But:).....he's done everything now that they wanted to see. I'll get a check or him on Fri.
Becky
I think so. A week seemed long enough to me. I'm with Hair on this one. I would start letting them know time about up. Either buy him or bring him back because you have other interested clients. Anyone can find something "wrong". It sounds like they are looking for the perfect horse.
I don't see the point in any Palomino expert.... It isn't like there is an area of competition where "Palomino" is a criteria, in any discipline. You and I should qualify as "bay horse" experts.... yeesh.
Being evaluated as an equitation horse is also silly. The point is, can he be ridden through walk, trot, canter both directions without the rider having to lose form. I know I showed in some equitation over fences, small ones. Often in a 'hunter hack' kind of format where they do a regular flat class both directions, and then they line up for two small jumps at the end.
Yeah, I think so too.
I'm wondering if they aren't trying to find some little flaw, to use to negotiate the price. It won't happen:). In my mind when I brought him home from Robbers Cave his price went up. I told the lady at the barn, these people were the only one's that get him at that price, because I had already quoted that. If I bring him home, and they come back they won't get him at that price either.
Becky
Ok, I've seen that done.
The lady I talked too today said it's 95% sure. So I'm probably just getting anxious. I just don't want it to drag past the end of the week. IMO, he's past all the tests that were agreed on could be tried.
Becky
Hunter seat equitation is both a horse show class and a type of riding. The class is judged (or supposed to be judged) completely on the rider's seat/hands/aids/ets and not on the horse's way of going. However a hunter class is judged on both the horse and rider as a combination and how the horse moves, responds, jumps (if it's an over fences class) and turnout all count. A horse that will excel in these classes, especially the 'western style english' riding prevalent in the stock horse breeds is one that moves at a precisely steady gait, meets his fences squarely and precisely the same way every time, never rushes or looks hard to control... in effect a western pleasure horse moving slightly faster in different tack. (In fact, that's what they are in many stock horse shows.)
Now, if they are looking for a horse that will excel in a class with Thoroughbreds, Arabians, and warmbloods, that's a very different picture. On paper, the descriptions sound nearly the same, but what is rewarded in the ring is quite different. The original definition of a good hunter is a horse that would be a pleasure to ride to hounds. I don't know about you, but I'd want a very steady, very reliable horse that would never consider refusing a fence, that always jumped in a safe, scopey manner and one that could keep up a good pace as long as he needed to without kicking up a fuss about it.
Anyway, I've prolly not answered your question, but I'll stop rambling on. (It's one of my soap boxes. I don't mind watching a horse do what it's trained to do, in any discipline, but I can't stand watching a horse being passed off as something it's not simply by changing the tack and not the riding or training.)
Boy you hit on something I've gripped about for years. So many people around here take one horse to a show, and show it English and Wester. IMO, that's wrong. They should be different. That was why I thought Harley would make a better English Show horse then Western Show horse. He just had that high big stride. Hair told me what I was seeing but didn't know how to say was "impulsion":)
Anyway, that's what, IMO, will make him a good barrel horse too. He covers ground with what looks like very little effort.
Make sense?
Becky
Your answer was fun to read! Coming from Arab shows where everyone was trying to get high-point by entering horses in everything, I know what you mean when you say that the only thing that changed between classes was the tack!
I think I may have been confusing there.
A 'hunter class' is judged on horse and rider, but more on horse.
An 'equitation class' (hunter or otherwise) is based on the rider alone.
I guess the question is, are they looking for a horse that will win at the local 4-H show or a horse polished up to win at Madison Square Garden? If they are thinking of showing in breed association shows, then bringing a breed expert out to look isn't a bad idea, regardless of whether you and I think that 'palomino' is a breed or not.
You know I don't really know, do palominos have to be from Quarter stock, like paints?
Becky
I think there is a palomino color registry, like the bucksin registry or pinto registry.... but they are all-breed, and I don't think they have enough numbers to ever have association shows, like Paints have.
*nodnod*
In 4-H, I had to judge Quarter Horses in English riding classes. And myself coming from a predominantly English riding background, my placings didn't match the QH judges' at *all*. :) Very frustrating. I don't think there should be a double standard.
Now, I will say that some horses *can* make a good transition, but only when the riding *and* the tack *and* the training are adjusted to suit. And that doesn't hold for the pleasure classes. I've never seen a horse trained to win at pleasure classes that was flexible and athletic. But then, I'm admittedly biased, I don't think that a horse that goes all but backwards looks like 'a pleasure to ride'! :) Cutting, reining, dressage and jumping? Sure.
Palomino is considered both a breed and a color. The registry is all-breed, but the majority (esp out West) tend to be of stock horse blood. Association shows are held, but more commonly there are palomino-only classes held within other shows. Of course you do get Tennesee Walkers and Saddlebreds and such in there as well, but they tend to not to be shown in hunter classes.
I've always thought very few Quarter Horses made good English Horses. And that was what was so odd about Harley. He looked and moved like and English Horse, to my way of thinking, but his bloodlines are Old Foundation Quarter horse. No throughbred in him.
I think I'm missing him:). Becky
Well, the 'Old Foundation Quarter Horses' were of very heavy TB blood. :)
My own TB gets mistaken for a QH quite regularly, esp when he's in work and muscled up. Then again, he also *loves* to chase cows. :)
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