Mel Gibson says his wife could be going to hell

MSNBC ^ | 02/10/04 | Jeannette Walls

[evets]

Gibson was interviewed by the Herald Sun in Australia, and the reporter asked the star if Protestants are denied eternal salvation. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” Gibson replied. “I believe it.” He elaborated: “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”

[biblewonk]

Ya hafta see past the bible dude to really understand the holy Catholic Church.

[jtminton]

I'm going to assume, from you calm demeanor and cool head that you will probably respond, even though you said you won't.

As far as WHERE the Catholic chuch says that Muslims are covered under redemtion, maybe MY POST THAT STARTED YOUR ENTIRE RANT (#151) could enlighten you.

As far as your 'You Fool' reply (#306). The fact of the matter is no matter how many times the Pope says something, it doesn't put it in the Bible. Therefore, anything taken as doctrine outside of the Bible is simply not true. I can't make that any plainer.

I'm still confused how me saying that Jesus is the only way to salvation (John 14:6) is slander. Maybe it's a Catholic thing.

By the way, sticks and stones. . .

[BlackElk]

SSPX is NOT in communion with the visible Church on earth, as you well know. SSPX has been declared schismatic by John Paul II, its bishops excommunicated by him. He is the head of the visible Church on earth. You accept the pope or you do not. You are sedevacantist or you are not. You are Catholic or you are not. Similarity does not count. Close does not count in Catholicism only in horseshoes. YOPIOT or Marcel's or that of the Feeneyites is NOT doctrine.

[Ol' Sox]

Wiccans???????? Wiccans???????? Pooooooor babies!!!!!!!! Witchcraft is not a path to salvation!

Black Elk, Black Elk, I expect better from you. You're speed reading this thread and missing the entire point of my post. Please go back and read the ENTIRE post. Then, understand that the EXAGERATION was to make a point, sir.

Context. Know it. Use it.

[newgeezer]

LOL.

Oh, well. This is just one more reason not to throw away good money to watch his movie.

[BlackElk]

If you have some evidence (particularly a specific admission by Mel) that he rejects the pope or the papacy, please provide it. Otherwise, you must overcome his statement that he goes with rulings from the chair (of Peter obviously) even when the result would be so horrifying as the damnation of his own wife. He is wrong on the teaching but that statement of his surely does not suggest that he is not in communion with the pope.

The notion that there is ANY traditional Catholicism that rejects papal authority is a persistent non-truth spread here for self-serving reasons (or because they have convinced themselves) by about 10 schismatic dissenters who imagine themselves more Catholic than the pope and have delusions of grandeur that the schismatic SSPX and its excommunicated bishops and founder are the Church.

[Dataman]

...and this guy — who clearly has no clue about the Biblical good news of Jesus — is telling us Jesus' story.

I wouldn't say no clue. For example, the recent move, The Gospel of John, was put together by a committee of not-exactly-orthodox "scholars" who, on the bonus disk, denied the Resurrection, denied the authorship of John, danced around His deity, and late-dated the Gospel as a product of redactors. Yet the film got great reviews and high praise from conservatives.

You know how the saying goes, if God could use a talking donkey,....

I believe that God has raised Mel up for this purpose. Mel could just be at the beginning of his spiritual journey. Apollos obviously needs to explain some things to him. Bottom line for me: The culture needs this message.

[dangus]

This is a hand. Talk to it.

[BlackElk]

CB: Where do you get this stuff?

Baptism (into the RCC) may be administered by any lay person whose intention is valid, Catholic or not, who uses water and baptizes "in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." This is often done in hospitals in the absence of a priest when a patient (usually an infant) is in imminent danger of death.

You do NOT have to attend Mass or attend the Sacraments to "be saved" or, as we would term it, to go to heaven. If you ARE a Roman Catholic, you are required to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation (here Christmas, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, the Feast of the Assumption, Holy Thursday which is trending optional, the Feast of All Saints and the Feast of the Presentation) under pain of sin. If you are not Catholic, I cannot imagine that you would feel bound by the commandment of the Roman Catholic Church that you attend those Masses or that you confess your sins at the prescribed time annually or receive the Eucharist at least once a year.

Confession is TO a priest who stands in persona Christi and is authorized by the Christ through the pope through the power of the keys. Absolution is FROM the priest under the same authority. The Eucharist can ONLY be confected by a validly ordained priest (ordained in thesacrament of Holy Orders) because only he may transubstantiate the mere bread and wine into the actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ under the continued appearance of bread and wine.

The husband and wife are the ministers of the sacrament of marriage. The priest is merely the Church's official witness. If a man and a woman who are eligible to marry do so before a justice of the peace or before a Protestant minister, a rabbi or whatever, they marry. If they are alone on a desert isle, they marry but are expected to regularize the marriage when first able to do so.

[jtminton]

Told ya.

[EllaMinnow]

Thank you. You explained it better than I ever could.

[BlackElk]

Your second paragraph contains the surgically accurate question that destroys the Feeneyite heresy and the claims of its adherents either to Roman Catholic Church membership and/or, if they had been right which they are not, they would be condemned to hell. Happily, their belief is heresy. They cannot make it otherwise. Like anyone else, they may still wind up in hell for sin.

[BlackElk]

And now, lest I be falsely accused of false accusation that you are a Feeneyite, you are citing him specifically and his heresy under his name. He repudiated that heresy. Why don't you?

[txzman]

"OK, Mel's wrong on this, but what's with the sniping at the Catholic bible?"

Sorry for how this appeared - it was from an earlier quote by Gibson about his father who believes that the Catholic version is the only acceptable version of Scripture that is true.

[BibChr]

The Gospel of John has going for it that, whatever the insanities and idiocies of its makers, the dialogue is straight from a (fairly wretched) translation of the Gospel, verbatim.

This is his interpretation.

The fact that he'd live with the text as long as he presumably did, and still come up with the twin damnable heresies of (A) my wife will go to Hell because she's not Roman Catholic and (B) she really ought to go to Heaven because she's really a good person... well, it's not encouraging.

Dan

[BlackElk]

I deny that. Name 20 of the 224.

[BlackElk]

Dangus: If Hutton Gibson started out as a Roman Catholic (which he did) and became a sedevacantist and is not in communion with the pope and the Church, and if, as you say, he is in heresy, than perforce he has apostasized. No? What am I missing here?

[Cicero]

"Church" is actually a pretty complicated word. The is one Church of Christ, of which St. Paul says that Christ is the Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride. But the word is also used for bishoprics or regions, as in the Seven Churches of Asia Minor. And the Catholic Church recognizes the legitimacy of the Orthodox Churches, which are both one and many, depending how you view them. Plus there are all the various Eastern Rite Churches in communion with Rome. And ancient churches such as the Coptic Church in Egypt.

So, for Catholics "Church" can either mean all Christians in communion with the Pope and the bishops, or it can mean something a little broader. Ultimately, it's Jesus who decides on the bounds of His Church.

Most Protestant Churches consider themselves to be separate from the Church of Rome, although some Anglicans would argue a little differently on that point.

In any case, the Catholic teaching is that there is no salvation except through the Church, but that Jesus most likely extends His salvation backward in time to the great patriarchs and prophets, and reading the hearts of men may extend salvation to whom he chooses.

To further complicate matters, some Protestants speak of the Church Invisible. This is the Church as God sees it, not man. The term was invented partly to deal with the problem of where was the Church between the time of the Apostles and the time of the Reformation, when many Protestants believed that the visible Church of Rome was led by Antichrist. Catholics don't quite believe in that. The Church is visible. But it likely extends beyond those visible bounds. That's my take on the matter. Ecclesiology is actually a very late developing branch of theology, and much of this is still being hashed out.

[BlackElk]

So, Mike: If you agree with SSPX that Catholic Doctrine changes, will you be entering the SSPX?

[NotQuiteCricket]

OK, I'm going to stick my toe in on:
"(B) she really ought to go to Heaven because she's really a good person... well, it's not encouraging."

The problem with the (B) option - in my opinion anyway - is that from what I understand it is not deeds that get you into heaven, but belief in Jesus Christ Who saved us from our sins, by His sacrifice upon the cross.

So - since she is a Christian and believes in Jesus, she should be all set as far as heaven goes.

AS TO the movie - regardless of Mel's opinion on who all gets into heaven, hell, purgatory, or the void (not that his opinion really matters really) is irrelevant, if he stayed true to the New Testament (as well as that is possible).