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To: plain talk
"Church" is actually a pretty complicated word. The is one Church of Christ, of which St. Paul says that Christ is the Bridegroom and the Church is the Bride. But the word is also used for bishoprics or regions, as in the Seven Churches of Asia Minor. And the Catholic Church recognizes the legitimacy of the Orthodox Churches, which are both one and many, depending how you view them. Plus there are all the various Eastern Rite Churches in communion with Rome. And ancient churches such as the Coptic Church in Egypt.

So, for Catholics "Church" can either mean all Christians in communion with the Pope and the bishops, or it can mean something a little broader. Ultimately, it's Jesus who decides on the bounds of His Church.

Most Protestant Churches consider themselves to be separate from the Church of Rome, although some Anglicans would argue a little differently on that point.

In any case, the Catholic teaching is that there is no salvation except through the Church, but that Jesus most likely extends His salvation backward in time to the great patriarchs and prophets, and reading the hearts of men may extend salvation to whom he chooses.

To further complicate matters, some Protestants speak of the Church Invisible. This is the Church as God sees it, not man. The term was invented partly to deal with the problem of where was the Church between the time of the Apostles and the time of the Reformation, when many Protestants believed that the visible Church of Rome was led by Antichrist. Catholics don't quite believe in that. The Church is visible. But it likely extends beyond those visible bounds. That's my take on the matter. Ecclesiology is actually a very late developing branch of theology, and much of this is still being hashed out.
338 posted on 02/10/2004 11:44:05 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
In any case, the Catholic teaching is that there is no salvation except through the Church, but that Jesus most likely extends His salvation backward in time to the great patriarchs and prophets, and reading the hearts of men may extend salvation to whom he chooses

Thanks for a detailed response. I realize these matters are difficult. I was just after a simple answer as to whether Catholic doctrine teaches that one has to be in the Catholic church to be saved. If that is the case that is something I was just not aware of. My wife is Catholic and I'm Protestant and I've attended church with her for years.

Most Protestant Churches consider themselves to be separate from the Church of Rome, although some Anglicans would argue a little differently on that point.

FWIW my pastor at my local Presbyterian PCA church has remarked on the term catholic church contained in the Apostle's Creed " ... I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church, the communion of saints, ..." as meaning all gospel believing churches, catholic and protestant and does not treat Catholics as being some separate entity wrt salvation etc. In fact the web site I pasted this excerpt from had the following asterisk "*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ". The important thing is faith in Christ.

358 posted on 02/10/2004 2:08:56 PM PST by plain talk
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