Mel Gibson says his wife could be going to hell

MSNBC ^ | 02/10/04 | Jeannette Walls

[tiki]

It is a teaching of the Church but as in many things Catholic it isn't as simple as it seems and it has been argued to death. All Christians are connected to the Church through their faith in Jesus Christ they just lack the fullness of the faith.

[Pyro7480]

It depends on the form of Baptism. If it is Trinitarian, "In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Spirit)," it is valid. If it is not, then it isn't valid.

[evets]

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. " Romans 10:9

This concept is repeated throughout the Gospel.

[angkor]

Elaine: So is it a problem that I'm not really religious?

Puddy: Not for me.

Elaine: Why not?

Puddy: I'm not the one going to hell.

[Bosco]

Here it is... Romans 10: 8 - 13

"The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Christianity makes exclusive claims as to the means of salvation - i.e. who to believe on and why - but it's open to EVERYONE. Isn't that a picture of a particular but loving God? I think so.

[Maximilian]

OK, Mel's wrong on this,

You're a Catholic, aren't you? You should know (and believe) that there is "No salvation outside the Church." Christ gave us the Church as our means of salvation. If you don't take advantage of it, you don't go to heaven.

[BlackRazor]

It is a Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church.

Could you please provide the Catechism citations that support this? Thanks!

[Pyro7480]

As a former Roman Catholic, now disciple of Jesus,

Are Catholics not disciples of Jesus, or is that a name of a denomination?

[dangus]

Good. it isn't quite true...
Read Vatican 2.

[El Conservador]

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

It wasn't directed at you.

Just wanted to comment on how the thread turn into a "kill the Catholics" bashfest.

[US admirer]

PS- Gotta love that "share in eternal life... they will go into the eternal fire" part for the Jews and heretics etc. Now that's real fire and brimstone, no compromise stuff. God it feels great to be catholic.

[Pyro7480]

Don't buy into any of this. Thee are several posters who are attempting to create divisions b/w various groups of Christians.

AMEN!

[The Bronze Titan]

This topic has already been discussed in FR before.

Here, check it out, before bad rumors begin to spread...

Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation??

[WKB]

Did you take up an offering before your sermon? :>)

[pissant]

Sorry to break it to you. But most Catholics are not liberals or modernists. Maybe 40% are. Most, including myself, do believe Catholic Dogma, which has 2000 year old roots. If you live in a big metro area, it can skew your impression of the typical Catholic. So cheer up.

[King Black Robe]

I think salvation is much easier than people think, yet many who think they've got it are deceived. In my opinion, denomination is irrelevant. But I do think the gates of Heaven are opened and closed by the one Judge of all mankind. So everyone needs to be mindful of themselves and stop worrying about what other people think; they will answer only to the Holy One Himself.

[sinkspur]

because they are in contradiction to the constant teaching of the Church for 2000 years

Actually, they're not. Invincible ignorance has been a constant teaching of the Church, as has Baptism of desire.

God has bound salvation to Baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments.

[JudgemAll]

Frankly, Jews too are saved, imo.

It's a two way street for Catholics too. Do as you want done unto you. And so, getting on an intereligious dialogue, touching base with each other and allowing mutual peaceful settlement while arguing in the virtual, savagely attacking doctrines and not people, that is the way.

Whether one holds the truth or an alibi, it is what we do with those things in the end that completes the truth, the metatruth.

Jews do not want to make the master jealous by following the wrong master.... Christians do the same by worshiping the "Lamb man" Son of God, because that pleases God for such kindness masterlessness to be worshiped. However both the form of masterlessness and Lambness must be discussed at length, and it takes a long time and concerted independent efforts at times, and joined efforts at other times.

[Maximilian]

The idea that all Christian faiths are embraced within "the Church"--meaning, not specifically the Roman Catholic Church, but the body of Christ, the congregation of all believers--is an innovation of Vatican II.

True.

Mel belongs to a group of hyper-conservative Catholics who reject the liberalized doctrines put forward by Vatican II. He wants a Latin mass, etc.

True.

So it's not surprising that he has adopted a very nineteenth-century view of salvation.

In the Catholic Church there are no "views" that reflect different centuries. The truth doesn't change. Catholics today still believe what St. Augustine believed back in 400AD and what the apostles believed before him.

People who are new to a faith, a job, or other new commitment sometimes go way overboard. As a new believer he's far more passionate than the cradle Catholics who were raised in the faith.

Gibson is a cradle Catholic. It's just that the other interests in his life -- like being a movie star -- were overshadowing his faith. Now he has gotten back to putting his faith first. But he has always been a Catholic. Witness, for example, that he is probably the only star in Hollywood still successfully married to the same woman for 25 years and with at least 7 children. His oldest daughter is training to be a nun. So he has always been Catholic.

[Arthur McGowan]

The Catholic Church does not teach that all non-Catholics are going to hell. The Catholic Church teaches that all who are saved, are saved, in some way, by Jesus Christ, through the instrumentality of the Catholic Church.

If Gibson believes what the article says he believes, he is a Feeneyite, i.e., a heretic. But why should anyone trust a journalist?