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To: HairOfTheDog; Bear_in_RoseBear; ksen
SPOILERS GALORE: don't read if you haven't seen!

Boy, HOTdog, you *are* obliging! (c8

Well, I had spoken to the management of the theater twice in advance to be clear on what was going to happen, so I showed up about 9:00. I was maybe 60 people back, for a theater holding 500. My wife and Josiah (8) joined me just as the line was going in, about 10:40-ish. We got fine seats.

FOTR:EE started without trailers at 1:00, to much applause. The audience was just great all the way through. Obviously filled with die-hard LOTR fans, they applauded and/or hooted at the right places, were silent at the right places. Wormtongue actually got hissed! It was a lot of fun, and wonderful to see the EE's on the big screen.

Then came the long break after TTT:EE, with ROTK to start at 10. (Aside to the midnight-show people: hahahahahahaha).

Every trailer got booed, mixed with laughter. The first logo's at the start of ROTK got applause, followed by silence through most of the movie, except for a few outbursts of applause.

Now to ROTK itself.

My simplest and shortest review is that I literally — and I only use the word "literally" literally — had to keep telling myself to close my mouth. It was a jaw-dropper, start to finish.

And I don't just mean the battle sequences which, obviously, were overpowering and amazing. But equally the cut-the-tension-with-a-knife intimate scenes, between Sam and Frodo, Faramir and Denethor, and so on. Equally, just some of the imagery — the stairway up which Gollum leads Frodo comes first to mind. Just overwhelming, masterful.

Peter Jackson is a genius working with geniuses. I continue to marvel at the man's ability to do a tight closeup on some intimate, personal little moment, then sweep seamlessly to some huge, epic scene of battle or confrontation. The moth-to-Saruman scene from FOTR is a classic example; ROTK is filled with others.

Sean Astin deserves SOMETHING. He deserves a LOT of somethings. Having read LOTR for over thirty years, I say: Astin NAILS Sam, he EMBODIES Sam. I can't imagine a performance one molecule better, truer. Everyone else is wonderful, too; and Merry and Pippin get to bring up depths hitherto only hinted at, at best. But Astin's doggedly loyal, truehearted Sam towers over all.

I laughed, I tensed up tight as a drum-head, I teared up, I yelled, I whooped, I clapped. What more could one want from a movie?

I'll get to my quibbles eventually, but here I turn to the inevitable question: so now which is your favorite?

I'd have to say, still FOTR. It still has a magic not quite in the others for me. BUT I reserve the right to revise that verdict (A) after repeated viewings and (B) after the EE. I'm pretty sure TTT will never take that place, but conceivably ROTK could.

I hope I've expressed enough love for the movie to avoid a lecture over my quibbles. And if not, I'll add this: I'm astonished at how much Jackson crammed into 3:20. A maz ing. I say again: the man is a genius, and works with geniuses.

QUIBBLES

Preface: most of these are totally conditioned on the EE. Most of them might be swept away by restored footage. I hope they ALL are.

First: in FOTR, though he can't swim, Sam sees Frodo heading across the river, and wades out after him. He'll DROWN rather than let Frodo go on alone. "I made a promise, Mr. Frodo. A promise. 'Don't you leave him, Sam Gamgee.' And I don't mean to. I don't mean to."

Flash forward to ROTK: "Go home, Sam." He cries (very moving)... and then he goes home.

Huh?

And what changes his mind, and turns him around, is... finding lembas? Like he DIDN'T know BEFOREhand that GOLLUM must have done something with the lembas, but now he DOES know? It would have made sense if he'd put it in his pocket for proof to Frodo... but as it stands, it's an incongruous "Huh?"

Second: Aragorn hears that the love of his life, Arwen, has not left Middle Earth, and is dying. (An invention, but we leave that aside for the moment.) So he takes the sword, and does some kingly buttkicking. For Arwen (in part)! Okey doke.

Fast-forward. Now Aragorn has won, and is being crowned king. The hobbits are recovered, Faramir and Eowyn are recovered, everything's been arranged, invitations sent out, catering paid for. So it's been, what, weeks? Months?

And, oh, who's that behind that banner? Why, it's old Arwen! Dang, haven't thought of her in months! How do I know that? She looks at him uncertainly, and he does the same. I guess in all the hustle and bustle, he has just COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN about her! But it's all okay now, because he hugs her and kisses her (now that she's here, uninvited), and they'll get married and have kids and she'll have a miserable, hopeless future (so vividly envisioned by Elrond, who now unaccountably seems cool with the whole deal) because of choosing to bind herself to this negelctful, absent-minded man.

So again I must say....

Huh?

Third: IF I'm remembering this right, UNLIKE the book, Denethor does not slam the door and insist on immolating himself. No, Gandalf knocks him back onto the pyre, whereupon he (by Gandalf's direct doing) bursts into flame, screams, and runs off, horribly dying as Faramir watches. Whereupon the now-immobile Gandalf philosophically muses (concerning the man HE just set on fire) something like, "Thus ends the stewardship of Denethor [because I just set him on fire]."

Huh?

All others are minor, unless I've forgotten something. I'd heard Bruce Spence was the Mouth of Sauron; but no MoS in this picture. Why didn't Eowyn hide her identity totally, like in the book? Since it's my favorite part, I wished they'd stuck to it close. I loved it in the movie, but miss the Witch King smugly saying "No man can kill me," then being stunned and rattled as this GUY starts actually LAUGHING at him -- and then, shock of shocks, pulls off "his" helmet and says "But no mortal man stands before you," and the rest. It seemed to go a little fast in the movie. I still loved it, and Eowyn rocks — but I'd prefer it to have been closer to the book.

The appreciation of the hobbits was cool, but I'd've liked more, like in the book.

Well, there's my review rattled off for your perusal.

Did I like it? Mercy, yes. Will I see it again? Oh yes, again AND again. How would I rate it? Oh, 4.5 or 5 stars out of five. Do I recommend it? Enthusiastically.

And there you have it.

Dan
10 posted on 12/17/2003 10:50:12 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: BibChr
You certainly were with a vocal audience. I've never been in a theater where the previews were boo'd or applauded. Is that usual where you live?

Thanks for the review. I hope to see it on the 22nd.
31 posted on 12/17/2003 11:58:27 AM PST by GretchenEE (Osama, you're next.)
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To: BibChr
I just got back from ROTK. Feel like I've been to Mt. Doom personally.

Thought some of the same things you did. Still, UTTERLY FABULOUS film.

Were you as emotionally drained as I am? Maybe it is because I haven't eaten all day, but really feel like I need a nap! LOL!
43 posted on 12/17/2003 1:59:49 PM PST by theophilusscribe
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To: BibChr
Third: IF I'm remembering this right, UNLIKE the book, Denethor does not slam the door and insist on immolating himself. No, Gandalf knocks him back onto the pyre, whereupon he (by Gandalf's direct doing) bursts into flame, screams, and runs off, horribly dying as Faramir watches. Whereupon the now-immobile Gandalf philosophically muses (concerning the man HE just set on fire) something like, "Thus ends the stewardship of Denethor [because I just set him on fire]."

This part annoyed me too, but I felt that they missed Denethor's dignity. It was a silly end. Denethor's real death was wrong and suicidally, but not silly.

I liked your review! I was the same way about the jaw-dropping. Going to write my review in a minute.

124 posted on 12/18/2003 2:12:17 PM PST by JenB (22 Days Til EntMoot)
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To: BibChr; HairOfTheDog; Bear_in_RoseBear; Snake65; Tijeras_Slim; RosieCotton; ecurbh; 2Jedismom
one Freeper's review.

Whooo.... where to begin.

One problem I always have when watching these for the first time is that I have read the books so often that I have an image in my head for every scene and when I watch the movie that image often conflicts, sometimes jarringly. This time it was the death of Denethor, The way Aragorn comes to the Battle of the Pelennor, and Gandalf and Pippin meeting Denethor for the first time.

The plot is so large that I will take it a piece at a time.

Among the missing. Because of the framework of a movie, most of the 3rd Tier characters are omitted entirely and their roles taken over by main characters doing double duty. No beregond, Pippin does double duty. No halbarad and his troop of Northern Rangers, no Sons of Elrond, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli go alone to the paths of the dead. No Prince Imrahil or other Lords of Gondor. Gondor is shown with no help coming from other parts of Gondor. No problem here, Imrahil is a very one-dimensional character in the book. No black stone of erech and the fight at Pelargir vs. the corsairs. although the corsair fight is assumed. No mouth of Sauron although hints are that this was filmed and may be in the EE. I hope anyway, one of my favorite scenes.

I always wondered why Aragorn hasn't had his sword all along and now we know why. Anduril, the sword that was broken, is doing double duty as a sword and as the token of Aragorn's kingship. In the book this role was taken by the banner of the white tree and seven stars which was handmade by Arwen. This banner does not appear in the movie (that I saw) which is a shame because I was looking forward to it being unfurled from Aragorn's ship.

Merry and Pippin.
These characters I felt were given short thrift in the earlier movies so I was glad to see that they have been given room to grow, to prove their worth. Pippin finally grows up and is moved to give his life in service to Denethor, just as in the book. Pippins encounter with the Palantir is shown and was much overdramatized but it was essentially as in the book. Pippin is a fool, but an honest fool, Gandalf says, to Pippin's embarrassment. They then go to Gondor where Pippin proves his worth in service to Gondor and Denethor and provides the role that Beregond would have played if he was in the movie, being torn between allegiance to Denethor or Faramir. Pippin has a very strong scene where he feels awkward about singing a song and we see the scenes of Faramir leading a desperate charge into Osgiliath while Pippin is singing.

We don't see a strong bond between Merry and Theoden, but other than that he gets his role as well in bringing down the Chief of the Nazgul. He also has his role as the more sensible hobbit.

No houses of healing, no romance between Faramir and Eowyn although this is hinted at as they give each other some glances at the end.

No scouring of the Shire or Sharkey's End, perfectly understandable, I'm suprised and gladdened that it ended where it did.

Legolas and Gimli.
Almost always seen together or in close company, their friendship grows even closer. They continue their counting game with Gimli getting one of the best lines in the movie "That only counts as one!" This is in response to an amazing action sequence of Legolas taking down a Mumakil(Oliphaunt) singlehandedly and twenty enemies on it, counting as goes. He lands lightly on his feet as the huge beast violently slams to the ground. Legolas and Gimli also stick close to Aragorn and are his sole companions on the path to the dead, contrary to the book. Near the end when they are contemplating marching to the Black Gate, Gimli gets another good line: "Certain death? No hope? what are we waiting for?"

Aragorn.
Good stuff here, he takes the paths of the dead, and fulfills his destiny. the dead are eerily creepy and there is no black stone of erech which I missed. His best scene is before the black gates where he says "For Frodo" then leads the charge. The emotion in his face and voice as he does this is incredible and you truly have the sense that he will die that day, and he does not care.

Elrond and Arwen.
in a big departure from the book Arwen is on the way to the grey havens has second thoughts and turns back when she sees a vision of her future with Aragorn and her Son. Big departure from the book, but done in a powerfully emotional way. The son-to-be is wonderfully cast and looks like a good cross between her and Aragorn. She gets back to Rivendell convinces Elrond to reforge the sword. Elrond then makes a quick jaunt down to Dunharrow to deliver the sword in person. This is a bit jarring, but maybe Elrond has a lear jet and their is a private airstrip nearby. This whole portion essentially does a plot counterweight versus the dunedain coming to Aragorn with Arwen's Banner. Definitely in the spirit of Tolkein, if not the letter.

Denethor and Faramir.
Denethor is disappointingly one-dimensional. Very disappointing because his character had so much emotional depth and it wasn't lived up to in the movie. He is insane but the cause of his insanity is missing (the palantir) In the book you saw his wisdom and penetrating intelligence as he interrogates Pippin when the first meet. This is missed. We only see his madness, his disregard of faramir and regret over losing Boromir and he dies by throwing himself from a ledge in an unecessary departure from the book. Denethor is also portrayed as being criminally negligent in preparing for the defense of the City, Minas Tirith. In the book, he did all he could. Denethors best scene comes when he looks over the ramparts at the fields below and is stunned to see all of the hosts of Mordor arrayed against the city. He then gives up all hope and urges everyone to flee. Whereupon Gandalf knocks him upside the head. It wasn't in the book, but I wanted to knock him upside the head at that point too so when gandalf does it, I laughed.

Theoden, Eowyn and Eomer.
Good job on Theoden, Theoden first casts doubt on whether he will help Gondor, but when the beacons are lit he says "Rohan will answer" and calls for the muster. From there they go with 6000 spears, true to the book, only part of his total strength. No time for the wild men on the way, the next time we see them is on the Pelennor. Eowyn rides along disguised and takes Merry with her along the way, against the wishes of both Eomer and Theoden. Eowyn's disguise is not hidden from the audience which is just as well since it isn't a very good disguise anyway. She gets her moment when she faces the Lord of the Nazgul, who was also the Witch-king of Angmar. of him there was a prophecy that "No living man may hinder me" as he says. In the book if you are reading for the first time, there is a shock as dernhelm casts aside his helm and shows herself to be Eowyn and then says "But no living man am I!" This dialogue is changed for the worse. It was better in the book, but the scene is still powerful. Merry does his part by stabbing the Nazgul in the knee giving Eowyn her opening to finish him off.

Theoden gets his speech before the battle of the Pelennor. Word for word from the book, it is powerfully emotional and inspiring:


"Arise, arise, riders of Theoden!
Fell deeds awake, fire and slaughter!
Spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered!
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!"

Too bad Eomer does not get his speech later on where he says "Now for Wrath, now for Ruin and a red nightfall!" But I think this speech was done in the Two Towers so its all good.

Plus the way the Rohirrim pour into the ranks and overrun the orcs in the Pelennor simply has to be the best battle scene in a movie ever. period. end-of-story. This is what they were going for and they achieved it hands down.

Frodo and Samwise.
Introduced in the movie is a subplot where Gollum splits Sam and Frodo. Frodo tells Sam to go home and Sam does. I didnt like this at all, it's out of character for Sam. Frodo meets Shelob then alone and is stung and Sam has a change of heart after seeing Gollum's treachery. He finds Frodo all wrapped up and apparently dead. From there on it's pretty close to the book. One thing missing is the confrontation Sam has with the Watchers of the tower. They are there, and maybe this will be in the EE. I know, I know, not everything can be in there.

Shelob is there though and is extremely lifelike and you will NOT breathe during this sequence. In the book this is one of my favorite scenes and the movie almost does it justice, just add one more thing and I would have been happy, and that is Sam holding the vial aloft and shoulting "Gilthoniel A Elbereth!" and then defying the spider to come and taste his sting again.

The sequence at the crack of doom is perfect except for just being a bit over the top. Everything was good up to Gollum biting Frodo's finger off, but instead of immediately tumbling over, Gollum then has another fight with Frodo, they both fall off, but Frodo manages to hang on. Not true to the book, unnecessary and feels too much like normal movie cliffhanger stuff. The rest of it is fine.

You also get the feeling that we are missing a lot in Mordor, and since we are now used to the EE, we keep thinking of what we are missing.

Gandalf.
While Frodo and Sam are the emotional center of the movie. Gandalf is at the center of every plot. He truly is the mover of all things as his said about him in the movie. However, he gets rough with Denethor physically in an over the top movie way and lights the beacons himself. His scene to go get the remnants of the battle of Osgiliath is wonderful and inspiring and shows his strength and power. That bit was in the trailer and I know why. The scene will be a movie icon for years, it is that powerful. Gandalf is also a fairly kick-but warrior in his own right as we see. He serves as the entire leadership of Gondor while Denethor sits everything out.

Sets.
Minas Tirith a plus, if they didn't build a whole city for this movie, they built quite a bit. The tower of ecthelion is a marvel. the white tree is poignant for those who know the whole history of Gondor. Everything you would expect is basically there. I especially liked the Tomb of the kings, I wanted to go there immediately and spend more time looking at the walls and carvings as I felt the detail was strong enough that the setmakers probably made a tomb and inscription for each of the kings of Gondor, it Certainly looked that way anyway. The minas Tirith set was perfect for the many battles and the coronation. Minas Morgul was appropriately creepy. The paths of the dead were as well. Mount Doom and the cracks of Doom, the Sammath Naur, was perfect.

The ending.
Special mention for the way of ending this movie. After bringing us to such emotional tension we needed some time to cool down and we get it. An emotional meeting when all of the fellowship is gathered together that will get a lump on your throat. Then the coronation of Aragorn (His name as King is Elessar Telcontar as is befitting a king of his stature, Telcontar means "Strider" in High Elvish) Arwen shows up unexpectedly but a very good scene although different from the book. Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin see the King in his glory and they bow, but Aragorn and Arwen, King and Queen of Gondor and Arnor, Both Children of Earendil, Beren and Luthien. They bow before the hobbits. All of Gondor bows with them, and the hobbits just stand there stunned, awkward, not comfortable as they all pay homage.

The next scene is an old hobbit scowling at them as they stroll through the shire in all their foreign ironmongery.

the next scene they are all sitting in the green dragon sharing a beer. the entire bar is completely oblivious to them, all they have gone through, and the entire world around them. Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin don't say a word but they say everything with shared looks and smiles. In the world of men they are heroes. In the Shire, they are again, just good old hobbits. Just as they wanted it to be. No words are spoken and it is one of the most powerful scenes in the movie.

another haunting scene where Frodo walks through Bag End alone. Not sure of himself, and not comfortable there again. I'm projecting here, but I think Frodo is wondering whether he can ever call it home again, or if anywhere in Middle Earth can be home again.

The scene at the boats is moving and if you werent crying before you will be here. I won't say more.

and the very end where Sam says "I'm back". Perfect. I was definitely misty. Hell I'm getting misty now, just writing about it. Guess I'm an old softy at heart.

144 posted on 12/18/2003 8:02:35 PM PST by delapaz
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