FReeper Reviews of Return of the King (Spoiler FILLED)

Dec 17,2003

[HairOfTheDog]

Lord of the Rings:
Return of the King!
FReeper reports and reviews thread

Beyond this point there be spoilers!

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[Corin Stormhands]

We didn't have any previews with the Trilogy showing. Just went straight to the movies.

The more this is all sinking in, the more I am loving it. I think the EE will make it perfect, and I hope we can get to see that on a big screen.

[DollyCali]

usually in our area (NE Ohio) all is sold out but I will try for a late show tonight. The three movies day before was sold out in one hour here & so missed that (by about 3 hours) last month.

Just read & I enjoyed the thread from a few days ago about the die hard who wanted all to boycott because of Viggo's politics... HA! You all did great..

I decided to not read the thread but just let you know I join the multitude of FReepers who is a LOTR fan & in general a movie addict...

[theophilusscribe]

I just got back from ROTK. Feel like I've been to Mt. Doom personally.

Thought some of the same things you did. Still, UTTERLY FABULOUS film.

Were you as emotionally drained as I am? Maybe it is because I haven't eaten all day, but really feel like I need a nap! LOL!

[theophilusscribe]

Ah . . . the BEACONS! Breathtaking!!

[ican'tbelieveit]

Didn't that give you the chills.

[ican'tbelieveit]

I definitely felt like I was there. And, I didn't feel the last 2 hours of the movie... the first hour was a touch long; but after that, it rocked.

[maquiladora]

That was wonderful! Such beautiful camerawork.

Ah, I tell you if Peter Jackson doesn't get an Oscar this time there is no justice.

[theophilusscribe]

I wept openly! Amazing film, truly!

I'm still a little stunned . . . I'm sure that once the whole thing sinks in, really, really sinks in, I'll have better words to describe my amazement.

For right now . . . WOW!
:o)

[ican'tbelieveit]

Everyone bowing to the hobbits... yeap, that did it for me. Of course, it didn't help that I was still teary from the reunion. Where to start.

[Maigret]

Ok, you all are killing me, I won't get to see ROTK till it comes to our remote village and that will probably be a good few weeks :( So somebody tell me, PLEASE, someone had mentioned somewhere that the scene at Mt. Doom is changed - does Gollum bite the finger or doesn't he?????

[Land_of_Lincoln_John]

Brilliant. I saw the 11am showing in Skokie, IL. First of all, on a local note, indicted today ex-Governor of Illinois, George Ryan is a dead ringer for Gollum.

Yeah, I wanted the Scouring of the Shire in it, too. The Woses, (the wild men who escort Rohan's cavalry past the Orc positions) were among the favorite peoples of mine in the ROTR book.

[maquiladora]

Yes, it's just like the book, he bites it off. It's very graphic and very bloody.

[ican'tbelieveit]

It is hard when everyone is out watching the movie. But here was our experience. I am suffering the end side of a cold. We got to the theater just before 9am (our showing was at 10:15); the wind was blowing horribly, but thankfully it was warm. There were already about 50 people in line in front of us. All but a couple of the showings were sold out.

Thankfully, the theater mgt took pity on us and let us into the theater at 9:15. It was great to just sit there listening to other fans and see everyone's excitement.

10:15... the previews... finally the movie.

[Skywalk]

Have you ever seen nature shows?

I've seen people and spots near lava survive and not burn up.

Lava cools as it travels anyway, so it isn't AS hot as it is when it's in the cone of the volcano.

But could they survive on that rock? Well the rock wasn't a mere couple inches above the lava, it was several feet(maybe even 15-20.) I think it's possible to survive that.

[Skywalk]

I thought so many things were done so brilliantly, which is why I was a little let down by a few things:

1) Gollum, on the stairs, is supposed to have a moment of near-change/redemption. This is when he sees Frodo asleep and feels compassion and pity for him, and started to really recall what he was before the Ring. And as he gently touches Frodo, Sam wakes up and ends the moment and Gollum's hope of redemption. I'm not overblowing that either, Tolkien himself refers to it. In the movie, it doesn't exist, instead Gollum sets Frodo against Sam.

2) Night-time leaving at the Grey Havens. Frodo is supposed to hold aloft the phial of Earendil and it's as if a star passes over the horizon(at night obviously) I know it seems minor, and maybe they did it for the people who wouldn't know where they are going(so having that light and the sun makes it more apparent.)

3) No Mouth of Sauron, no Easterlings and other human armies meeting the West at the Black Gates. No despair by the Fellowship that Frodo is dead(mithril shirt)

4) Denethor's end--I think the end in the book is more "noble" in it's own crazy way. Like Dan points out, it's almost as if GANDALF is the one who sets him on fire, rather than Denethor's own act of suicide(though I suppose he could have asked for help) I just thought the running off was a bit much.

5)No Saruman--I don't know, I think the end of Saruman is as compelling as the end of Sauron. There's something similar to Saruman in Saddam's end, both end ignobly and because of those whom they had abused and taken for granted betraying them(or merely gaining vengeance)


6) Sauron--What's with the "eye" looking at the tower collapsing around it? I liked the great cry that arose from
the tower in the book. But the eye looking at the collapse is kind of weird, but that's the choice they made from the first when they decided to make Sauron, LITERALLY, the Eye, rather than have that merely be an instrument of his great power.


That's about it though, everything else was mainly extraordinary. I think I need to see it again to take it all in. I welled up at several moments, even just as Eowyn says "I am no man!"

Oh is that little exchange between Eowyn and Theoden in the book, because it sounds EXACTLY like the final one between Luke and Vader---I mean, to the word.

[DoctorMichael]

Left work at lunchtime.......got car.....drove to theatre.....all showings EXCEPT for the 2:45 were already Sold Out......bought ticket......went back to work to finish things I left 'cooking'......drove back to theatre.....went to 2:45 showing.......WOW!!!!!!!!!!! THIS truly WAS the 'Mother of All Battles'. Amazing!

[The Iguana]

I did the Trilogy thing yesterday.

I thought it was a phenomenal film and I plan to see it again a few more times this week. There was simply too much to absorb. It is a staggering achievement. To list all the things that were done right would take all week.

I will lay out my minor niggles. I found five of them (of note) on the first viewing, and I think at least three likely will be fixed on the Extended Edition.

1. The portrayal of Denethor from start to finish was largely a failure, and a number of reviewers have picked up on it. In the book he is a competent but arrogant leader who goes mad from despair. In the movie he's not even competent. It is impossible to either understand him or sympathize at all with him. And therein lies a failure of character growth that could have enriched the movie even more. We don't really understand why he's mad right from the start. Why refuse to summon help from Rohan? It makes no sense at all. Especially when he later complains about Rohan's "betrayal." It would have been far more edifying to see his descent from arrogant shrewdness to utter madness brought on by the strain of the war (if not the palantir) and the apparent mortal wound of his last son.

The "shooting star" leaping end was a bit over the top as well but perhaps forgivable as a customary Jacksonian action amp-up.

2. The lack of a proper wrap up to the battle of Pelennor Fields. This is clearly a case of ruthless editing. The battle ends with the vanishing of the Army of the Dead and a brief sequence with the hobbits. The next thing you know we're in the White Tower debating strategy, with no real affirmation or development of Aragorn's new status as the captain in chief and de facto king. Nor is there any resolution of what happens to gravely wounded Eowyn and Faramir. This is clearly fixable with the presumed-to-be-filmed Houses of Healing sequence(s), where Aragorn secures his status as king with the Gondorians by healing these two. A mere five minutes or so could have done the trick, and it is disappointing they could not find room for these scenes. When you're up to 3 hours 20 minutes what's an extra few more?

3. More ruthless editing in Sam and Frodo's final stage of the journey. They go without explanation from wearing full orc ensemble to wearing the dirty remains of their old clothes. Clearly the scene where Frodo removes the orc gear due to extraordinary fatigue was cut. And this is not just a sartorial question, but rather a lost opportunity to fully flesh out the horrific journey Frodo and Sam undertake across the plains of Orodruin. Again: a case where the editor's knife was a bit too efficient. More would have been better, not padding.

4. The strange and unexplained Arwen-is-dying subplot. This made no real sense to me save as a failed attempt to desperately find *some* role for Arwen to play in the main storylines. And many reviewers have picked up on this, which makes no sense to the casual moviegoer either. They could simply have limited her role to returning and persuading Elrond to reforge Narsil, and accomplished the same thing without a bizarre and threadbare subplot.

5. The occasional excess with story arc intercuts. Jackson is a master of intercuts in this series, and it is a measure of his achievement given how complex this tale and its many stopry arcs are to lens. Usually he has a deft hand in jumping from arc to arc, especially in keeping the massive battle sequences from getting to be overwhelming by intercutting other story lines. With the Eowyn vs. the Witch King scene, however, he would have done well to leave well enough alone by NOT intercutting Aragorn's arrival with this most powerful scene. The intercut robbed Eowyn's triumph of its power by interrupting it, especially since the other arc had no impact on her scene, which is not the case with so many other intercuts (i.e., between the Final Battle and Frodo and Sam's crawl to the cracks of Mount Doom).

There were a few other odds and ends (a bit of PJ's old horror cheese crept in to the Army of the Dead sequences, for example), perticularly points where it was obvious that material had been cut. I think many of these minor problems will be fixed on the Extended Edition. I certainly pray that Denethor's poor character benefits half as much as Faramir's did from the Two Towers Extended Edition when the ROTK EE comes out next November.

Problems that were not problems: Jackson was right to cut the Scouring of the Shire, which I love in the books but which would tack on 20-30 minutes of denouement to the film. Heck, reviewers are already complaining about the 15 minutes or so of denouement that Jackson DID include after the destruction of the Ring. Jackson was justified in trimming the Voice of Saruman - its inclusion would have been nice but was not really essential to the film, either.

In regards to Saruman, it should be noted that Jackson handled his fate in the Theatrical Version EXACTLY as Tolkien himself proposed when ripping apart a proposed movie script in 1958: If you are not going to film Saruman's death as depicted in the book, then just leave him to rot in the Tower.

I shoudl emphasize that these niggles do not take away from what is clearly one of the finest films of our generation. If Jackson was too ruthless in paring down his films, I must say this is preferable to the alternative displayed by George Lucas (the anti-Jackson) who has the compulsion in his prequel films (and revised editions of the original series) to depict every action and scene, no matter how small or pointless. Jackson is sumpremely economical in his cutting method.

And unlike Lucas, he can actually get good performances out of his actors.

[RobFromGa]

LOLOLOLOLOL

[BibChr]

...that little exchange between Eowyn and Theoden in the book, because it sounds EXACTLY like the final one between Luke and Vader---I mean, to the word.

I thought that, too. Like we wouldn't notice?

Dan

[Skywalk]

Yeah, just checked, it's not in the book.

Well, I always figured Vader was a sort of Gollum-figure, but he redeems himself at the end(of his own will) and casts "the ring"(the emperor) into the chasm and ends the Empire.

So, since Lucas took some of those elements from LotR, maybe Peter thought he could take that bit of dialogue, but that was a bit TOO much.

There should only be one "I've got to save you. --You already have."