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To: HairOfTheDog; Snake65; ecurbh
I did the Trilogy thing yesterday.

I thought it was a phenomenal film and I plan to see it again a few more times this week. There was simply too much to absorb. It is a staggering achievement. To list all the things that were done right would take all week.

I will lay out my minor niggles. I found five of them (of note) on the first viewing, and I think at least three likely will be fixed on the Extended Edition.

1. The portrayal of Denethor from start to finish was largely a failure, and a number of reviewers have picked up on it. In the book he is a competent but arrogant leader who goes mad from despair. In the movie he's not even competent. It is impossible to either understand him or sympathize at all with him. And therein lies a failure of character growth that could have enriched the movie even more. We don't really understand why he's mad right from the start. Why refuse to summon help from Rohan? It makes no sense at all. Especially when he later complains about Rohan's "betrayal." It would have been far more edifying to see his descent from arrogant shrewdness to utter madness brought on by the strain of the war (if not the palantir) and the apparent mortal wound of his last son.

The "shooting star" leaping end was a bit over the top as well but perhaps forgivable as a customary Jacksonian action amp-up.

2. The lack of a proper wrap up to the battle of Pelennor Fields. This is clearly a case of ruthless editing. The battle ends with the vanishing of the Army of the Dead and a brief sequence with the hobbits. The next thing you know we're in the White Tower debating strategy, with no real affirmation or development of Aragorn's new status as the captain in chief and de facto king. Nor is there any resolution of what happens to gravely wounded Eowyn and Faramir. This is clearly fixable with the presumed-to-be-filmed Houses of Healing sequence(s), where Aragorn secures his status as king with the Gondorians by healing these two. A mere five minutes or so could have done the trick, and it is disappointing they could not find room for these scenes. When you're up to 3 hours 20 minutes what's an extra few more?

3. More ruthless editing in Sam and Frodo's final stage of the journey. They go without explanation from wearing full orc ensemble to wearing the dirty remains of their old clothes. Clearly the scene where Frodo removes the orc gear due to extraordinary fatigue was cut. And this is not just a sartorial question, but rather a lost opportunity to fully flesh out the horrific journey Frodo and Sam undertake across the plains of Orodruin. Again: a case where the editor's knife was a bit too efficient. More would have been better, not padding.

4. The strange and unexplained Arwen-is-dying subplot. This made no real sense to me save as a failed attempt to desperately find *some* role for Arwen to play in the main storylines. And many reviewers have picked up on this, which makes no sense to the casual moviegoer either. They could simply have limited her role to returning and persuading Elrond to reforge Narsil, and accomplished the same thing without a bizarre and threadbare subplot.

5. The occasional excess with story arc intercuts. Jackson is a master of intercuts in this series, and it is a measure of his achievement given how complex this tale and its many stopry arcs are to lens. Usually he has a deft hand in jumping from arc to arc, especially in keeping the massive battle sequences from getting to be overwhelming by intercutting other story lines. With the Eowyn vs. the Witch King scene, however, he would have done well to leave well enough alone by NOT intercutting Aragorn's arrival with this most powerful scene. The intercut robbed Eowyn's triumph of its power by interrupting it, especially since the other arc had no impact on her scene, which is not the case with so many other intercuts (i.e., between the Final Battle and Frodo and Sam's crawl to the cracks of Mount Doom).

There were a few other odds and ends (a bit of PJ's old horror cheese crept in to the Army of the Dead sequences, for example), perticularly points where it was obvious that material had been cut. I think many of these minor problems will be fixed on the Extended Edition. I certainly pray that Denethor's poor character benefits half as much as Faramir's did from the Two Towers Extended Edition when the ROTK EE comes out next November.

Problems that were not problems: Jackson was right to cut the Scouring of the Shire, which I love in the books but which would tack on 20-30 minutes of denouement to the film. Heck, reviewers are already complaining about the 15 minutes or so of denouement that Jackson DID include after the destruction of the Ring. Jackson was justified in trimming the Voice of Saruman - its inclusion would have been nice but was not really essential to the film, either.

In regards to Saruman, it should be noted that Jackson handled his fate in the Theatrical Version EXACTLY as Tolkien himself proposed when ripping apart a proposed movie script in 1958: If you are not going to film Saruman's death as depicted in the book, then just leave him to rot in the Tower.

I shoudl emphasize that these niggles do not take away from what is clearly one of the finest films of our generation. If Jackson was too ruthless in paring down his films, I must say this is preferable to the alternative displayed by George Lucas (the anti-Jackson) who has the compulsion in his prequel films (and revised editions of the original series) to depict every action and scene, no matter how small or pointless. Jackson is sumpremely economical in his cutting method.

And unlike Lucas, he can actually get good performances out of his actors.

57 posted on 12/17/2003 5:01:29 PM PST by The Iguana
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To: The Iguana
I was happy with the film.... My minor niggles are only small enough to maybe come up in other comments, but not as a list. I was OK with Denethor.... Was OK to make him plainly -out of it-.... He was fallen and what he did was wicked... (I smile a little to hear conservatives call for moral relativism ;~D)

The things that are missing, I know we will get in the end. We will get the fleshing out and the additional scenes that we look for.

The houses of healing was filmed, we know this. As was the wedding of Eowyn and Faramir. When we watch the extended we will get the whole of the story PJ would tell if time was of no concern.... so I am happy with this preview.

87 posted on 12/18/2003 8:09:44 AM PST by HairOfTheDog (‘I have quite finished, Sam,’ said Frodo. ‘The last pages are for you.’)
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To: The Iguana
"They go without explanation from wearing full orc ensemble to wearing the dirty remains of their old clothes."

That was one of my few minor quibbles as well.

190 posted on 12/19/2003 9:06:38 PM PST by sweetliberty (Better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.)
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To: The Iguana
Having never read the book I have nothing to quibble about.

I guess I'm lucky like that ;)
195 posted on 12/19/2003 9:31:13 PM PST by Bogey78O (Rob Reiner is a tubby fascist!)
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