[faithhopecharity]

about a week

[BobL]

It’s a good answer, but to be complete, they should have noted what the Palestinians did to all of structures, farms, and greenhouses when Israel left - they LEVELED them.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

I asked my cat, how lazy do you have to be to request questionable data from a Large Language Modal that was programed using fiction and use that as a basis for an "article"?

The cat said you would have to be very lazy indeed.

[wardaddy]

Grok is PC coached

That’s the issue

Same as info dissemination

Techs learned a decade ago pure AI would be embarrassing with the plain truths we all see around us

[sit-rep]

faster than what we have seen in our inner cities...

[TexasGator]

“Any other AI probably would have accused me to all sorts of racism, bigotry, Islamophobia, etc.”

Nope. GEMINI

Any other AI probably would have accused me to all sorts of racism, bigotry, Islamophobia, etc.It’s impossible to give a precise timeframe for a first-world country to become a third-world country. The decline of a nation is a complex process influenced by numerous interconnected factors. There isn’t a set speed at which this kind of shift occurs, and it can vary greatly depending on the specific circumstances of the country.
However, we can look at the factors that typically contribute to a country’s economic and social decline, potentially leading it from a “first-world” status (characterized by high levels of development, strong economies, and stable institutions) towards a “third-world” status (often associated with poverty, instability, and lower levels of development). These factors can include:
* Economic Instability: This could involve severe and prolonged recessions, hyperinflation, unsustainable debt, the collapse of key industries, or significant capital flight.
* Political Instability and Corruption: High levels of corruption, political violence, civil unrest, or a breakdown of the rule of law can severely damage a country’s economy and social fabric.
* Social Issues: These can include a decline in education and healthcare systems, rising inequality, significant social unrest, or mass emigration of skilled workers.
* Infrastructure Decay: Failure to maintain or invest in critical infrastructure like transportation, energy, and communication networks can hinder economic activity and quality of life.
* External Shocks: Major global events like pandemics, wars, or significant shifts in the global economy can have a devastating impact, especially if a country is already vulnerable.
* Environmental Disasters: Severe and repeated environmental disasters can strain resources, displace populations, and damage the economy.
It’s worth noting that the terms “first world” and “third world” are rooted in the Cold War era and are increasingly seen as outdated. Today, it’s more common to discuss countries in terms of their level of development using metrics like GDP per capita, Human Development Index (HDI), and other socio-economic indicators.
While a rapid and complete shift from a highly developed to a less developed state is unlikely in a short period, a sustained erosion of key institutions, economic fundamentals, and social well-being could lead to a significant decline over time. Some historical examples show countries experiencing substantial decline due to conflict, political upheaval, or economic mismanagement. However, a direct and complete transformation from a “first-world” to a “third-world” state as historically defined is not a common or well-documented phenomenon.

[ChronicMA]

Look to non-oil economies nearby like Egypt, Jordan, and Syria for comparison.

[Romulus]

Grok will lie to you. Don’t waste your time.

[dznutz]

” how long would it take for them to turn it from a first world country into a third world country?

About the same amount of time as it took for leftist run democratic cities in America to turn into third world hell-holes.

[Bonemaker]

It would take a lot longer then it would take democrats.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

I fed your question to my Grok 3. Different answer, but similar findings....

---

Speculative Economic Transition of a Palestinian-Controlled "From the River to the Sea"

The phrase “from the river to the sea” refers to the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, encompassing Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. The question assumes a scenario where Palestinians gain control of this entire region, replacing Israel’s governance, and asks how long it would take for the area’s economic status to shift from “first world” (like Israel’s developed economy) to “third world” (lower GDP per capita, weaker institutions, higher poverty). This is a speculative exercise, as no recent studies directly model this scenario, but we can analyze it using economic data, historical trends, and governance patterns.

Framing the Scenario

• Current Status:
  • Israel: A first-world economy with a 2024 GDP of $552 billion, GDP per capita of ~$54,660 (IMF), and a Human Development Index (HDI) of 0.915 (very high, 25th globally). It excels in tech (e.g., Silicon Wadi), agriculture, and military industries, supported by strong institutions and $3.8 billion annual U.S. aid.
  • Palestinian Territories: The West Bank and Gaza have a combined GDP of ~$18.6 billion (2022, World Bank), with GDP per capita of ~$3,400 (West Bank: $4,300; Gaza: $1,200). Poverty rates are 12% in the West Bank, 64% in Gaza (2023, World Bank). Gaza’s economy is crippled by a 2007–2024 Israeli blockade, while the West Bank faces restrictions (e.g., movement, land access).
  • “From the River to the Sea”: A Palestinian-controlled state would govern ~10 million people (7 million Palestinians, 3 million Israeli Jews, assuming no mass exodus) across ~27,000 sq km, inheriting Israel’s infrastructure (ports, tech hubs, roads) but facing integration challenges.
• First to Third World Transition: A “third world” economy typically has GDP per capita below $5,000, high poverty (>30%), weak institutions, and reliance on aid or low-value exports. Israel’s current GDP per capita is 10x this threshold, so a transition would require significant economic collapse.
• Assumptions:
  • Palestinians establish a unified government (e.g., PLO-led or Hamas-influenced).
  • No immediate war or sanctions disrupt the transition.
  • Israel’s infrastructure (e.g., Tel Aviv port, Ben Gurion Airport) remains intact but requires Palestinian management.
  • Jewish population either integrates, emigrates partially, or faces conflict, affecting economic output.

Factors Influencing Economic Transition

Based on UNCTAD, World Bank, and historical data, here’s how key factors could drive or delay a first-to-third-world shift:

1. Governance and Institutional Capacity:
   • Current Palestinian Governance: The Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank struggles with fiscal crises ($1.86 billion financing gap in 2024, World Bank), corruption (41 cases in 2012, Transparency International), and limited control (Israel oversees 60% of West Bank, Area C). Gaza, under Hamas since 2006, faces 79% unemployment and 80–96% agricultural asset loss (2023–2024, UNCTAD).
   • Impact: A unified Palestinian state would need to absorb Israel’s advanced institutions (e.g., courts, tech regulators). PA’s track record suggests weak capacity to manage complex systems, risking mismanagement. Corruption and factionalism (PLO vs. Hamas) could erode investor confidence, as seen in Gaza’s deindustrialization (18% of Palestinian GDP, World Bank).
   • Timeline: Institutional decay could begin within 1–3 years if corruption or infighting persists, reducing GDP growth by 2–5% annually (based on PA’s 2013 GDP shrink, World Bank).
2. Economic Disruption and Infrastructure:
   • Israel’s Assets: Israel’s $552 billion economy relies on tech (13% of GDP), exports ($166 billion, 2023), and infrastructure (e.g., Haifa port, 33 million passengers via Ben Gurion). A Palestinian state would inherit this but face challenges:
     • Skilled Labor Loss: If 20–50% of Israel’s 3 million Jews emigrate, tech and finance sectors could lose 30–50% of talent, cutting GDP by 10–20% within 2 years (based on brain drain models, e.g., Venezuela’s 2014–2019 collapse).
     • Maintenance: Gaza’s 96% unfit groundwater and West Bank’s 93% olive yield loss (2023, UNCTAD) show poor resource management. Neglecting Israel’s desalination plants or power grid could halve output in 5–10 years.
   • Palestinian Readiness: UNCTAD notes Palestinians excel in services globally (e.g., remittances, $431 million in 2010), but Gaza’s 81% GDP drop (Q4 2023) and West Bank’s 19% contraction show reliance on aid (80% of Gazans, UNRWA). Without Israel’s trade networks, exports could fall 33%, as in 2023.
   • Timeline: GDP could decline 20–30% in 3–5 years if infrastructure falters or trade collapses, based on Gaza’s 86% Q1-2024 contraction.
3. External Factors:
   • Aid and Sanctions: Israel receives $3.8 billion U.S. aid annually; Palestine relies on $1 billion (2012, 80% delivered). A Palestinian state might lose U.S. support (e.g., post-Hamas 2006 aid cuts) and face sanctions if deemed hostile (e.g., Hamas’s 2017 charter). EU/Arab aid ($281 million, $206 million in 2011) could offset this, but not Israel’s $166 billion exports.
   • Regional Stability: Speculation suggests Iran-backed control (e.g., via Hamas, Hezbollah), destabilizing Jordan or ports (e.g., Haifa). This could cut trade 30–50% in 1–2 years, as seen in 2023’s 33% import drop.
   • Timeline: Loss of Western aid or sanctions could slash GDP 10–15% in 1–2 years, based on PA’s 2013 aid-driven GDP shrink.
4. Social and Demographic Challenges:
   • Integration: Governing 7 million Palestinians (64% poverty in Gaza) and 3 million Jews (20% poverty in Israel) requires unifying disparate systems. Hamas’s 2017 charter or PLO’s secular vision could spark conflict if Jews face expulsion fears, as 66% of Jewish students interpret the slogan as genocidal.
   • Poverty and Jobs: 500,000 jobs lost since October 2023 (200,000 Gaza, 144,000 West Bank, 148,000 commuters), with Gaza at 79% unemployment (UNCTAD). Integrating Israel’s workforce (4.5 million) could overwhelm Palestinian systems, raising poverty from 32.8% (2023) to 50% in 2–5 years if jobs vanish.
   • Timeline: Social unrest or ethnic tensions could cut GDP 5–10% annually, accelerating decline within 3–7 years, based on post-intifada trends (2000–2005, 15% GDP loss).

Estimated Transition Timeline

No studies directly predict a first-to-third-world shift, but combining Gaza’s 86% GDP collapse (2024), West Bank’s 25% contraction (Q1-2024), and historical crises (e.g., second intifada’s 15% GDP loss), we can estimate:

• Short-Term (1–3 Years): GDP per capita falls 20–30% (from $54,660 to $38,000–$43,000) due to brain drain, trade loss, and governance gaps. Poverty rises to 40–50%. Still first-world but declining (e.g., Portugal’s $27,000 GDP per capita).
• Medium-Term (3–7 Years): GDP per capita drops 50–60% (to $20,000–$27,000) if infrastructure decays, aid dries up, or conflict erupts. Poverty hits 60%, resembling upper-middle-income nations (e.g., Mexico, $13,000). Second-world status.
• Long-Term (7–15 Years): GDP per capita falls below $5,000 (third-world threshold) if institutions collapse, trade vanishes, or war persists, mirroring Gaza’s $1,200 or Yemen’s $2,100. Total GDP could shrink to $50–$100 billion, with 70% poverty.

Best Case (7–10 Years): Strong governance, Arab/EU aid ($2–3 billion/year), and tech retention keep GDP per capita above $10,000, avoiding third-world status. UNCTAD’s human capital focus (services, remittances) could stabilize trade.
Worst Case (3–7 Years): Hamas-led rule, Jewish exodus (50%), and sanctions crash GDP per capita to $5,000 or less, as in Gaza’s 86% drop. Corruption and conflict accelerate third-world status.

Critical Perspective

A Palestinian state controlling “from the river to the sea” could turn Israel’s first-world economy third-world in 3–15 years, depending on governance, trade, and stability. Gaza’s 86% GDP collapse and West Bank’s 25% contraction (2024) suggest a worst-case 3–7 years if PA/Hamas mismanage Israel’s $552 billion infrastructure. Corruption (PA’s 41 cases) and aid dependence (80% of Gazans) risk Venezuela-like decline, but UNCTAD’s service-sector potential and remittances ($431 million) offer hope if managed well. The slogan’s ambiguity (democratic vs. genocidal) complicates social cohesion, potentially speeding decline. No studies confirm a precise timeline, and Israel’s resilience (tech, military) could delay collapse if partially retained. Weak institutions could squander assets like California’s $165 billion Medi-Cal.

Conclusion

A Palestinian-controlled “from the river to the sea” could shift from first-world ($54,660 GDP per capita) to third-world (<$5,000) in 3–7 years (worst case: corruption, conflict, sanctions) or 7–15 years (base case: mismanagement, trade loss), based on Gaza’s 86% GDP drop and West Bank’s 25% decline (2024). Strong governance and aid could delay this beyond 10 years. Check UNCTAD’s 2024 report (unctad.org) or World Bank’s 2024 Palestinian economy update for data.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

BTW, tell Grok “provide answer in html 2.0 format.” Then you can paste formatted text right into FR.

You can also tell Grok “Make an HTML 2.0 table. First column is ABC, second column is DEF, third column is GHI. Present dollars in billions with one decimal point.” You can elaborate to your heart’s content.

[T-Bird45]

A new measurement is born. Previously, common speeds, such as the speed of light and sound, were quantified. Now, Grok has loosely defined the speed to shithole.

[Feckless]

I spent 6 months in the Egyptian Sinai with the MFO. We shared part of the civilian airfield about 10 miles from our camp. The “Terminal” was a 60x60 cinder block building. I was waiting there one day for a French Twin Otter bringing UH1 parts from North Camp. There were huge plate glass windows all around the terminal, each about 4 ft tall and 8 ft wide. Above the windows were huge black and white panoramic views of orchards, vineyards, grass and trees. I asked one of the Egyptian Army guards there what was the significance of the pictures. He swept his hands all around and said “Pictures of here, this place.” I said “Wow, how long ago?” and he answered sheepishly “When the Israelis had it.”

I’ve said for years if every Texan just got up and left it wouldn’t be 5 years before Meskins were swimming the Red River from Sewerdad Wichita Falls.

[eyeamok]

2 weeks max

[minnesota_bound]

Look what has happened to South Africa and Rhodesia.
Same for any democrat party run city or state.

[PIF]

Wildly wrong - two weeks at the outside.

[GOPJ]

It would be a hellhole within two years...