Replies

FLT-bird: "so you are claiming Lincoln did not send ships which invaded South Carolina's territorial waters?"

I'm saying not a single Union warship, your words: "invaded South Carolina's sovereign territory."

I'm saying, first of all, South Carolina had no legally recognized "sovereign territory".

Second, even if we contemplate SC "territorial waters", there's no proof that any Union ship "invaded" those waters.

Third, there was no "fleet" on April 11, there was only one small ship, the Revenue Cutter Harriet Lane and it neither "invaded" South Carolina's "sovereign territory" nor threatened any Confederates.

All of this DiogenesLamp understands, which is why he argues it was not the existence of a mythical "war fleet" that even matters, but rather the issuance of orders telling the captains to used force if necessary to resupply Fort Sumter.

So, according to DiogenesLamp, it was Lincoln's paperwork which started the Civil War, not Confederates' actual firing on Fort Sumter, forcing its surrender.

FLT-bird: "and yet there was a heavily armed fleet threatening Charleston as has already been outlined in this thread."

Your list of Union "war fleet" ships includes none which were actually in Charleston Harbor or invading South Carolina's "sovereign territory".

I'm saying not a single Union warship, your words: "invaded South Carolina's sovereign territory.",/p>

LOL! Then that is a lie on your part.

I'm saying, first of all, South Carolina had no legally recognized "sovereign territory".

of course it did. Read the 1783 Treaty of Paris. The sovereignty of each state was recognized individually. The sovereignty of each state has never been denied and is not denied to the present day by the SCOTUS. So this is just another lie on your part.

Second, even if we contemplate SC "territorial waters", there's no proof that any Union ship "invaded" those waters.

LOL! Every time a union warship sailed into South Carolina's territorial waters without the consent of the lawfully elected government of South Carolina, it invaded South Carolina's sovereign territory.

Third, there was no "fleet" on April 11, there was only one small ship, the Revenue Cutter Harriet Lane and it neither "invaded" South Carolina's "sovereign territory" nor threatened any Confederates.

Lincoln sent a heavily armed fleet as previously discussed.

Your list of Union "war fleet" ships includes none which were actually in Charleston Harbor or invading South Carolina's "sovereign territory".

Lincoln sent the fleet of warships I outlined previously.