Are Christians Supposed to Be Communists?

NYT ^ | David Bentley Hart

[NorseViking]

Link only.

[.45 Long Colt]

The Bible clearly affirms private ownership of property. It encourages working to provide for yourself and buy your own bread/property.

What is yours is mine = Spirit of Communism
What is mine is thine = Spirit of Christianity

[Arlis]

A very famous TV preacher recently stated that Paul wrote over half the NT.

Wow. He could not be more far off. He is also off on other areas. But then, I guess so am I as over the last 50 years God keeps adjusting my thinking in many areas, but NOT in the area of The Lord Jesus and His finished work....other than continually seeing more of the height, depth, breadth and width of what He did in His crucifixion, burial and resurrection....

Actually Luke wrote more of the NT than anyone else, at just under 25%, and Paul wrote just a little less than Luke, both in the 24% range.

Together they did not write half.

[Wiser now]

“But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. 2 And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”” Acts 5:1-4

[mulligan]

Stupid question that only an idiot would ask.

[arthurus]

Christians tried something like Communism early on, found it untenable and dropped it.

[Seruzawa]

Communism is evil and anyone who promotes it is ignorant or evil no matter how many quotes ha can cherry-pick out of the Bible.

[Raycpa]

Three different economy’s

God provides
Man provides
Government provides

[Ambrosia]

I have no problem with that....Paul was one who met Jesus on road to Damascus, after Jesus ascended into heaven. He wrote about the power of Holy Spirit, and the gifts of spirit. If anyone knew first hand about those things, it was Paul, who had been Saul of Tarsus.

In fact, Paul wrote about the coming of Jesus (second coming), which is when those gifts will be done away with. So many preach it was over after the disciples were here, which is NOT true. Paul was not ‘apostle’ until AFTER Jesus ascended into heaven, so that Holy Spirit could come. Without Holy Spirit there could be no gifts, speaking in tongues, as Paul describes how to use.

[Noumenon]

I’m having trouble reading the NYT article. I find the groans the souls of the hundreds of millions slaughtered in the name of communist ideals a tad distracting.

[lurk]

Scripture advocates private property throughout.

The early church practiced communal finances and food for a moment, then quit and went back to private property.

[varon]

.................look at the history of Communism and conclude its anything but a failed and dangerous ideology.

Yes, but it has positive medical application such as combating obesity. "Tree Bark, Grass and Ramen Noodles Diet" is Communism's gift to mankind.......

[Redwood71]

Christianity is the love, worship, and devotion to God. Communism is the devotion to man. Only God can change minds to Christianity. At the same time, only god can allow man to observe communism at his/her’s desire to be served and controlled. And God has never “made” someone do anything and has always allowed them to make their own way. So man/woman goes to God for love and to communism for earthly items of which they will not lead to the right hand of God. No different than Sodom and Gomorrah.

rwood

[trebb]

Yep - even though they knew they were carrying the most valuable message ever, they understood that they should not expect to be given room and board w/o earning their way.

[avenir]

If one wants the “communism” of the Acts era, one also gets the sudden deaths of Ananias and Sapphira. There was MORTAL judgment attached to lying to the Holy Spirit about property freely owned yet deceptively offered.

[trebb]

God's humility in allowing us Free Will allows much - with the apostles caveat that if a man will not work, he should not eat...

I knew some folks who decided to live in communes in the '60s - they discovered that too few did all the work and the rest leeched off them...came away a bit disillusioned about their precious Communism...

[nickcarraway]

Isn’t it the opposite? Christians are supposed to participate in charity voluntarily, not force other people to do it.

[DungeonMaster]

If thou shalt not work, thou shalt not eat. Doesn’t sound like communism to me.

2 The 3:10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

Will is important because it is the refusal to work. I agree with you, sounds like the opposite of communism. We have infinite social programs, welfare, free rent, free heat, free health care, ebt, rewards for producing bastards.

[Yosemitest]

That is one of the most idiotic questions that I've ever read.

"Communism is the devil’s effort, thru his demon-inspired human tools,
to take from us this greatest national and economic blessing God ever conferred on any people."

Read an article with some real wisdom.

Communism, "Christianity" - and Double Talk

Communism and "Christianity" bedfellows ?
Not quite, but both have one striking thing in common !

   WHAT in the world could COMMUNISM have in common with interpreting the Bible ?
A great deal — only, very few have ever recognized it.
   Communism, of course, is many things.
It is a doctrine, based on the theories of Marx and Engels.
It is a revolutionary program.
It is relentless class war.
It is a radical philosophy of history.
It is a radical philosophy of society.
It is a social system.
It is an economic system.
It is a political strategy.
It is a world conspiracy.

One Thing in Common

   But, though opposite or different in many respects, it does have one thing in common with organized "Christianity."
And I definitely do not mean the original Christianity of Jesus Christ and the first-century Apostles.
I mean the organized "Christianity" of our day, which interprets the Holy Bible !
   Among other things, realized by too few,
Communism is a system of double-talk.
Interpreting the Bible, likewise, is a system of double-talk !

What Do You MEAN? —

   Let me illustrate.
Let me make it clear.
   The purpose and proper function of words
is to convey meaning from one mind to another, or to others.
   When a person uses the word peace, he conveys to the minds of others
a state of tranquility, absence of violent strife or war; a state of quiet, or rest.
When one uses the word defense, he conveys to others
the meaning of protection from harm or from change, and from without.
When one uses the term political party, he conveys the idea
of one of the political groups or divisions within a government, as a part of it,
merely differing in certain areas of thought or method in policies, procedures or administration of that government.
   When one uses the term life, he means existence
-and, in respect to humans, conscious existence, as opposed to death;
and the term death is used to convey the meaning
of cessation of life.

Communist "Peace"

   But when a Communist uses the word peace, he does not mean cessation of struggle or violence, and state of quiet rest at all.
He means virtually the opposite.
He means a state of stirring up struggle, strife and war;
he means a state of violence, continuing until he and his "comrades" have imposed their ideas and concepts, their tyranny and their dictatorship rule on the whole world.
   The word peace, to the Communist, means
the state of chaos and violence and strife he can produce
until the world lies prostrate in his clutch,
enslaved into his kind of enforced quiet of nonresistance and docile submission to his dictates
— which he envisions as being finally restful and "peaceful" to him, if not to his victims.
But he uses the word peace to deceive those he is trying to conquer and subjugate.
   When Khrushchev says he is for peace,
he means he is in favor of all opposition just giving up,
lying prostrate before his feet.
He means he is coming with war and violence,
but there will be peace if and when we submit in unconditional surrender
— when we let him take all we have from us, and make us his slaves.
He is always for PEACE — that kind of "peace."
   When you hear Khrushchev say he is for PEACE, you need to know what he means by that word.
He is using DOUBLE TALK.
He doesn't mean what you mean —
and he uses the word deliberately to deceive you.
If he can make America and other nations think he is for peace, perhaps we will get real friendly and quit resisting —
and just surrender to him !

Communist "Defense"

   The Red Army is, they assure us, organized only for DEFENSE !
In their double talk, they are not aggressors —
WE are the imperialist aggressors!
   Now look at this.
UNDERSTAND the ridiculous absurdity of it !
   Here we have peaceful America.
We have no such national purpose as a goal to overthrow any other nation,
or to force or impose the American form of government, or its system of society, on any other nation.
We want to live and let live.
When a national disaster happens in Japan, either the U.S. government sends big-scale generous help,
or American citizens start a voluntary movement, making sacrifice and contributions on a large scale to send help.
   When Germany, Japan and Italy form an Axis alliance and attack us in a dastardly surprise sneak-attack on Pearl Harbor, and we resist to the point of winning the war,
then immediately we start sending them BILLIONS of dollars, and sympathetic and generous aid of all kinds,
to rehabilitate them and rebuild the destruction they brought on themselves.
   And yet, naive, generous, kind-hearted America —
so says Khrushchev
— is a reprehensible imperialist aggressor, trying to attack Russia !
   You simply have to understand Communist double talk to comprehend that !
   The Communist system of distorted and perverted thinking is this:
Their idea of society, economics, and government is the only right idea —
and therefore every other idea is wrong.
Every other idea is against peace, and is their enemy.
Even the static, peaceful existence of any other system of government, economics and society —
and religion
— is a menace and threat,
for the reason they cannot have PEACE
until we give up our concepts and ways, and surrender to them.
   Consequently, they work their reasoning around to the idea that our very existence is an AGGRESSION against THEM.
From this warped and diabolical point of view, our existence, even letting them completely alone, is disturbing their "peace" of ruling us —
therefore, an attack by the Red Army to conquer us is only DEFENSE !
   Isn't that "nice" reasoning ?
But it serves their PURPOSE to try to make the world think
they are for PEACE,
and their armies only for "defense."
They use the trick of having one opposite meaning for a word to them,
and another, but natural and normal meaning to us,
in order to deceive us into letting them destroy and conquer us!

What Communist Party Is

   Now to us, a political party is a political group within the national government —
loyal to, and part of that government
— but differing in certain concepts or methods of procedure or policy in the administration of that same government.
   But here again, the "Communist Party" is merely a trick term to pull the wool over our eyes and deceive us —
a means of getting a fifth column into our midst
— of getting the ENEMY'S GOVERNMENT into our very midst,
leading us to accept it as part of OUR government.
Its only object is to DESTROY our government.
Of course, if it could do this peaceably at the polls, it would —
but it knows it can't,
so it does stand for the VIOLENT OVERTHROW of the United States government.
   Actually, the Communist Party is NOT a mere political party, in the sense Americans think of the term.
It is a ruthless totalitarian Dictatorship.
It is run, with absolute power, by a few men at the top —
all of whom are completely subservient to one man who is Dictator Absolute.
This one-man dictatorship is supposed to be necessary because there may be different interpretations of the Marxist philosophy.
Therefore, to prevent division, they must have a Supreme INTERPRETER.
   In practice, since Communists came to power in their first government, Lenin was its first supreme interpreter, then Stalin.
After Stalin's death no one man was able to establish totalitarian domination over the small group at the top — the Politbureau — until Khrushchev emerged on top.
In the meantime there was terrific struggle for this leadership.
Some were ruthlessly murdered in the struggle for power before Khrushchev won out.
   But Khrushchev's position as Secretary of the Communist Party gave him the inside track.
The Communist Party is NOT merely a political party as part of the government of the U.S.S.R.
It is not one of the political parties in America, which is part of the US. government.
It is not part of ANY government.
It IS a government — a WORLD government,
which has set up, and therefore RULES the Soviet government in Russia.
It is supreme over the Soviet government !
   Instead of being another political Party as part of the party system of American government, it is a foreign government,
whose sole purpose is to destroy, and overthrow, the government of the United States,
and set up a foreign Communist government here instead,
just as it set up such a government in Russia, in China, in East Germany, in Poland, Czechoslovakia, and other countries.
   The Communist Party is outlawed in many countries.
Yet its double talk has deceived many countries into allowing it to operate as one of its own country's political parties!

Interpreting the Bible Is Double Talk

   Now notice the similarity between a method of organized religion, labeling itself "Christian," and this method of Communist propagandists.
   As stated above, when one uses the word life, he means existence —
and, in respect to humans, conscious existence
— remaining ALIVE.
He means being alive, as opposed to being dead.
And when he uses the term death, he means the cessation of that existence —
the STOPPING of that life, as opposed to still being alive.
   Now in the Bible God uses words to mean what they say.
Of course Jesus spoke in parables.
But parables are not double talk.
   True, Jesus specifically said that he spoke to the public always in parables, so that they would not understand —
to hide, or cloud the meaning.
He said it was not given to them to understand
— NOT THEN.
But he used no deception.
He did not mislead them.
He did not use terms which led them to believe the very opposite of what his words implied.
He merely left them puzzled, without understanding, as He intended.
   Of course, also, the Bible, in a very small percent of Scriptures, speaks in SYMBOLS.
But a symbol is not deceptive, misleading double talk.
As a parable is using one experience to illustrate a truth, so a symbol is the use of one term to picture something else having similarity in some form.
For example, the term "mountain" is used to illustrate a great major nation, and "hill" represents a small nation.
A "woman" in subjection to her husband is used to symbolize the Church in subjection to Christ.
The relation is the same, so that the one pictures the other.
Nations are sometimes represented as "trees."
The natural olive tree is pictured as Israel —
wild olive trees as gentile nations.
Always there is similarity of nature, character, or function, so that one, far from having a misleading opposite meaning, actually illustrates the other.
   But the Bible explains its own symbols.
Nowhere does the Bible deceive, or resort to double talk !
   But now look at Romans 6:23:
"The wages of sin is DEATH;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
There is no double talk there !
   Those words are neither symbol nor parable.
They are not allegory.
They are PLAIN WORDS, making a PLAIN STATEMENT, and they mean precisely what they say.
   Now this Scripture uses the word "life" as the opposite of "death."
The one, death, is the penalty of SIN.
The other, life, is the opposite of death, and comes as God's GIFT.
But it is a different life than this present temporary existence — it is eternal life.
This says plainly that that ever-continuous eternal life is a GIFT which God has to give.
That means we do not have it, now, or otherwise !
   But when the professional clergy, who had inherited and accepted the pagan idea of the "immortal soul," came across this plain statement which made a liar of their "tradition,"
they resorted to INTERPRETING these words —
they resorted to double talk !
   Here is one of many places where organized "Christianity" uses satanic double talk to pervert God's Word —
to deceive the people into accepting a meaning utterly different than the Bible plainly SAYS.
   When the Bible says plainly that the wages — the penalty — of SIN is death,
they twist this to mean that the penalty of sin is just the opposite of death —
they say it means eternal life, but only in a different place, and condition.
They say it is eternal life in the torture of hell fire —
burning forever and ever,
yet never burning up!
   When Jesus Christ says the Meek shall inherit the EARTH,
they use double talk to make this mean that the saved go to heaven.
They make salvation, or punishment, a matter of geographical location,
while the Bible plainly SAYS it is a matter of condition —
that man is mortal;
the penalty of sin is DEATH;
the soul that sins is not immortal, but it shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4, 20),
but the gift of God, or salvation, is ETERNAL LIFE.
   In, other words, the BIBLE says it is a matter of CONDITION —
the penalty of sin is the condition of DEATH
— of being DEAD for eternity —
eternal punishment, not eternal punishing.
Salvation is being given a gift we do not already have — ETERNAL LIFE;
that is, being put in the condition of being joyously ALIVE for eternity.
   It is a matter of WHAT we are, not WHERE we go !
   When the Bible uses the word DEATH as the very opposite of eternal LIFE in the same sentence,
it means DEATH, as opposed, to being ALIVE!
   As I heard a contemporary of mine — a radio evangelist who also has a world-wide audience — say on his program, when he came to this passage,
"death" means "separation from God."
   THAT IS PLAIN DOUBLE TALK !
That is a LIE !
That is an attempt to deceive !
   If we are already IMMORTAL, so that eternal life is not what God says —
a GIFT we may obtain under certain conditions He lays down
— then what do these words, "eternal life" in this passage mean ?
   To interpret the Bible is to put a different meaning on its words —
to resort to diabolical, satanic, deceptive DOUBLE TALK .
   Interpreting the Bible is putting your own meaning into it,
instead of receiving out of it GOD'S intended meaning.
It is a method of saying to people:
"The Bible doesn't mean what it says.
God is a liar.
You must believe what I tell you —
what I make God's words mean.
Believe ME, not God."
   When you read, in Galatians 4:24, the words:
"... which things are an allegory:
for these are..."
then continuing to explain what the allegory means,
you are not left in doubt.
The passage there was speaking in allegory —
but it tells you so-in plain language
— and then explains its own meaning !
   When Scripture says plainly,
"Jesus spake a parable, saying..."
you know it is a parable.
It says so.
   There is no doubt, when we read in Revelation, first chapter, of the seven stars in Jesus' right hand (verse 16),
and the seven candlesticks (verse 13), that these are SYMBOLS.
Verse 20 tells us plainly that the stars represent angels, and the candlesticks represent churches.
There is no deception — no double talk, there.
No interpreting is needed.
The Bible interprets itself.
   To INTERPRET the Bible is to use the satanic, diabolical, deceiving methods of Satan and of Communism.
It is a means of LYING.
   WE NEVER INTERPRET THE BIBLE.
   The Plain Truth makes the Bible — which is Truth-PLAIN,
because we know it means what it says,
and says what it means.
Yet I often receive letters from people telling me they are interested in "my interpretation of the Bible !"
   PLEASE understand !
The WORLD TOMORROW program, and The Plain Truth, DO NOT INTERPRET the BIBLE.
Believe it as it is, in Christ Jesus!

[NorseViking]

‘’’’ Here we have peaceful America.
We have no such national purpose as a goal to overthrow any other nation,
or to force or impose the American form of government, or its system of society, on any other nation. ‘’’’

Well. Bushes and Hillary thinks differently...

[sargon]

Voluntary collectivism can be great, when practiced by virtuous people. It rarely works when practiced too extremely, and with large groups of people who don't have common self-interests.

People are entitled to organized such efforts whenever they so desire. The early church attempted to operate like this in several cases and—to a degree—with some success.

As soon as it adopts coercive and authoritarian characteristics, collectivism quickly becomes a Tyrannical abomination, rife with abuse and destined to failure.

But I'm all for like-minded people to practice it whenever it makes logical sense, and carries the potential of being beneficial.

If I'm not mistaken, there are various industry-oriented business collectives which exist (and prosper?) in the United States...