Posted on 10/03/2017 8:04:23 AM PDT by LS
Any of you who have been around FR for long know I am NOT a conspiracy theorist. As a historian, I look at evidence first and foremost, then worry about motive.
The shooting in Las Vegas has many as of yet very serious unanswered questions. Few go to motive. I believe in history if you solve the question of actual physical evidence, motives become clear.
I'm not posting links with one exception. These are readily available on Twitter, and on other threads here today, but you have seen them.
1. There now appears to be at least three, and maybe four, videos showing some sort of muzzle flash" from a lower floor on the opposite side from the 32nd floor "sniper's nest." To me, one video is totally convincing. It's about 10 seconds, but that is in my mind no doubt an automatic weapon being fired. In the more newly released video, from a phone in a car that is moving, at first I thought this was not convincing. It easily could have been a stobe light in a room. But a later, better resolution version of this video surfaced. It is NOT a strobe. It goes in "bursts." And it is about the same location as the first one I saw.
These are clearly not "reflections."
2. The immediate response from people seeking to debunk was "yeah but what about broken windows there?"
Glad you asked. This is video from TODAY: https://twitter.com/LarrySchweikart/status/915225436367462401
3. While there IS what appears to be muzzle flash from floors 4-6, so far I have not seen any video showing any muzzle flash from the 32nd floor---despite the fact this guy was using a "machine gun" and shot for over 40 minutes. Not one. Please, please: if you have this video, post it.
I find that extremely odd. There would be some sort of light from the firing position, especially from a machine gun.
4. This is NOT a dis on the Las Vegas cops. It took them an hour to get this guy. Why? They did apparently use a robot to break into his room, wisely fearing a booby-trap. However, why did they not immediately converge on the right floor? I'm only asking: could it be they didn't see any muzzle flash from there? If you saw it, you'd pretty much know immediately where to go in the hotel.
5. People near the room the shooter was in reported it. But they also reported a security guard whom the cops were chasing. (This is from an Australian couple in the very next room).
6. The audio recordings of the police call (posted on other threads here) ALL said the shots were coming from "about half-way up" (Mandalay is 45 stories, right? Is 32 "half-way up?") or "about the 15th floor." This could be simple confusion---but I go back to muzzle flash. You'd only be confused if you were relying on sound alone, which is hard to pin down.
Now, I repeat, I'm not suggesting anything other than to explain the evidence. I'm not saying right-wing, left-wing, ISIS, FBI, or the Marx Brothers. Let me give you an example of how if we just follow evidence we usually arrive at the right conclusion:
In the JFK assassination, there were for years claims of shots fired from the "grassy knoll." Then, in the 1970s, the Dallas Police located a motorcycle microphone recording of an officer who had left his mic on accidentally that day.
What did they find? FOUR distinct "pops." But when they analyzed the sound more closely three came from the Texas Book Depository area and were all the same---Oswald's gun. The fourth came from the area of the officer and was a motorcycle backfire as they started to move.
What did they NOT hear? Any other shots from the grassy knoll. By being willing to entertain the notion of a "fourth shot," historians were able to prove, in fact, there were only three.
We need to approach this very carefully without leaping to the "motivation" conclusions. Just solve three questions: are the images captured now in multiple places muzzle flash? Why are there no (so far) recorded images of muzzle flash at the 32nd floor? And why did the police scanners all place the shooting lower than it was?
"About half-way up" is an approximation. If you're looking up, you usually don't take the lower floors into account, especially if you're panicking. The aren't in your direct line of vision. Then there's that massive slab at the top of the building with the name of the hotel on it that looks to to be several stories high. So it's not surprising that with all the chaos, people thought the shooter was half-way up the building. If you asked them to clarify that, some might say he was further up than that, but others probably wouldn't.
There will be many bullets found. The place was a ricochet heaven with concrete walls. And ricochet bullets can stay in bodies as they are slowed down. Bullets will be embedded in concrete. And the other guns might have different calibers. Also bullets that have already gone through a body or two may stick in the third body for example.
I’m not talking about ballistic matching necessarily.
Good. Thanks.
However, this view would obscure floors 4-6. Only shows down to about 15.
Agree. It’s not confirming at all. Still odd. NO ONE saying “at top.”
I keep going back to the fact that no muzzle flashes are around in any of the videos. Anywhere. Still waiting.
I haven’t seen the video you are referring to. The only videos I have seen are the ones showing the two windows on what could be the 32nd floor, but certainly not one of the lower floors. Furthermore, according to the police there was plenty of evidence, along with the deceased shooter in a room on the 32nd floor. So unless the police are deliberately deceiving us then I have to go with that report. If anyone can provided a believable reason the police would be deceiving us, then I’ll listen. But I think these claims of the shooting coming from lower floors are just not true.
Well, then that kind of discounts your argument. A bipod requires you to be up close to the window. A tripod allows you to be a little further back, but at the angle from the 32nd floor? No. You’d have to be at the edge.
More videos are being posted. If they all are ‘shooters’, we have shooters on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th floors, yet the only broken out windows are on the 32nd floor.
I have not seen any pix of any other broken or removed windows.
If the broken windows (32nd floor) are on the wrong side of the building, as some have said, then surely the various news sources would have noticed and reported as such.
==
I saw one video AFTER the shootings of a reporter. Behind him was the Hotel and a blue flash/strobe 10 stories or so and near the mid section.
These buildings probably have a lot of reflections and the area probably has significant echo-effects.
I’m open.
That’s no strobe light. I have seen other photos posted today with those windows out. The only question is which side of the building are they on. That has yet to be determined.
I don’t go to motives, on anyone’s part. That’s a waste of time. Just follow the actual physical evidence. Good point about shell casings-—that would be very important.
Way too early to discount another shooter. Certainly way too early to discount terror ties-—but that goes to motivation.
Motives are important. That is what is very perplexing about this case. No motive can be established as of yet. Sometimes the motive is just plain evil. Why would the police hide the fact that there is a 2nd shooter, unless perhaps it is to snare him by making him think they are unaware of his presence. But that doesn’t seem likely either. Also it would be extremely difficult to keep the fact hidden that the police have cordoned off a 2nd crime scene to investigate.
Bump
My point wasn't that the one particular photo I posted showed no broken windows on floors 4-6, but that there are thousands if not tens of thousands of eyewitnesses, videos, photos, and reporters on the scene in the daylight, and not one picture of any broken windows that face the concert plaza.
Even your twitter video appears to be on the wrong side of the hotel, and are also much farther up than floors 4-6.
I have watched several videos filtered by 4chan so I wouldn’t have to waste time for hours on irrelevant ones. In the cab driver video she is out of the area by about 10 minutes or so and so you don’t hear anymore. I haven’t been able to find a continuous, long video. But that stuck in my mind when I heard the cop say he hadn’t heard a shot for about 15 minutes. It would explain why there are videos of people just walking around while there are still a bunch of folks there. Seems to me 40 minutes of intermittent firing would allow just about everyone that could to get out.
I don’t know if it means anything but it could mean he had a partner who whacked him and split. Although I doubt it because the police radio said that they were in the hall on floor 32 with the security guard that got shot by 6 minutes in or so. So I don’t think anyone got out of that room after about the 6 minute mark and there was clearly more firing after 6 minutes.
It may be that there was just one shooter and he shot himself some ten minutes or so after he shot the security guard because he knew there were cops in the hall. And he may just have done it because he was a psychopath and it wasn’t a rap festival in Vegas. (Just imagine if it had been.)
Please add me to your ping list. Thanks in advance.
Stop spreading your garbage. The flashing was a strobe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMrm1xUJ40 at 14:25 police officer confirms strobe
https://youtu.be/DAa9hMOd-vM?t=1m37s shows strobe well before shots started
Google Earth shows the pictures/video showing “missing windows” were taken from west side. The Google Earth pictures were taken in January of this year... guess what... “missing windows”
You are spreading garbage and disinformation. You have been debunked.
I’m really starting to think the mods need to consider taking action on your agenda posting.
First, computers seem to crash at the most inopportune times. Sorry to hear of the death of yours.
Thanks for your insights on the awful event. All theories are appreciated in order to find what might have been missed the first time around. The power of the Net is the ability to speak as a group in compounding the information. (Thanks, AlGore)
Second, please add this name to your ping list once again. Thanks.
The brother said he went hunting and skeet shooting occasionally. Besides, just because one communicates occasionally with a family member doesn’t mean they know everything about them.
Unless you sat it on a table. I'm not sure how well he cleaned the broken glass out of the window frame. If he didn't clean it out fairly well, he wouldn't be able to use the bipod in the window frame.
Doesn't look like he did a very good job.
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