At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR-15 with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage? Posted on 07/11/2017 9:39:24 AM PDT by w1n1
At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR-15 with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage?
The logic behind the usage of an AR stems from situations where a firearm needed for greater range than a shotgun.
So the debate begins, shotgun folks talk about having the knock down power to stop the fight with its 00 buck. AR’s with its high velocity and more firepower in terms of 20 rounds – 30 rounds magazine capacity.
Using either firearm we can make a perfect case as the weapon of choice to have for personal defense. In order for us to decide in an un-biased environment, a test should be conducted for validation. We can do this by pitting the two guns in a side by side shootout.
There needs to be a determination that each gun should be fired at the same target and at the same range. Because the idea is to ascertain some kind of combat effectiveness under stress, a time limit needs to be establish on each stage.
This test was based from Wiley Clapp test out on Gunsite where he had two Range Masters both skilled with the shotgun and AR go through this special course of fire. (Bill Murphy – shotgun and Vince Morgan – AR-15)
This course of fire were as follow: A shooter armed with respective firearm would engage a silhouette at various ranges. First at 15 yards, then 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. At the command of a whistle the shooter would have 3 seconds to fire off as many rounds as possible onto the target. Read the rest of the shot gun vs AR-15 test here. How bout you all, which would you go with?
If within 25 yards, the 12 gauge all day long.
If more than 100 yards I’d want something in .308.
For 25-75 yards, I’d just use the .308 since I’ve brought it along.
I live in a suburban home and just can’t see an AR as an in-home defense gun. I also don’t think self defense is done at 100 yards. I like a shotty for indoor social work. My Mossberg 20 inch holds 8+1. I also have handguns with hollow point or frangible rounds ready.
I had this debate w/ my Firearms instructor 12 Gauge vs. AR for home defense. I was old school as my Dad had the 12 Gauge Pump as there were no ARs back then.
Gun instructor brought up a couple of points covered here regarding range and accuracy.
But his main one was overall length of the weapon. An AR is shorter and with the telescopic stock can get even shorter and you needs this in a home moving thru like narrow hallways.
Another point is AR w/ 30-Mag holds a lot more ammo and can reload faster with extra Mag
Convinced me.
Cops I knew had a shotgun in the front, and a mini-14 in the trunk.
“I have a shotgun, and I probably won’t miss.”
Also, “here I am”.
For home defense your distances aren’t more than a couple of yards, and you wouldn’t expect any long protracted firefights. I would think a shotgun or pistol would be just fine.
That’s what I got, and multiple copies of each.
Exactly. I’m surprised how few people grasp the hard limit of round capacity: you run out, you’re done - and likely dead.
Yes, a 5.56 doesn’t have quite the lethality of a 12ga ... but after 6-8 rounds, the AR still has >21 rounds available for followup, compensating for misses, or taking down additional threats - while the shotgun becomes little more than a lousy club.
On top of that, reloading (if possible) fills the AR with another 30 rounds in one short operation, while the equivalent operation gets the shotgun just 1 more round.
While you’ll run out eventually, don’t make choices that make it much sooner.
Inside the home: A 12 GA with #6 high brass.
Thats a warm and fuzzy all night long!
12 gauge by the door for yard critters but AR next to the bed if they’re in the house...be mindful of over-penetration through walls, use .223 not 5.56...don’t want to hurt the kiddies or the kitties...
While I don’t own an AR yet, I would have assumed the 12 guage better for the house between the two. Thinking through your comments on hallways and narrow spaces... assume the AR better.
But what about pistol vs. AR? In a situation where spaces are tight, possibly very close to the target, and adrenaline/fear whipping through me - would I likely have a tactical advantage between the two?
I’m not interested in communicating with threats, I’m interested in ending them.
Per implied scenario: someone has already made the deliberate choice to, against all law & social rules, cause damage and enter my home and prowl in the dark and steal and likely intends to do much worse - all with the knowledge that I may very well respond with deadly force, so he is likely prepared to accept combat with expectation of prevailing. This is not someone to have a “I have a shotgun and probably won’t miss” conversation with (revealing my location, intent, and ability), this is someone to inflict a decisive blow upon at the earliest possible opportunity, facilitated by maximum stealth/surprise. This is Condition Red: there is a lethal threat at hand, terminate it.
also, “Oops, I just had a failure to feed/jam....and just when I didn’t need it!”
Joe Biden’s AR-15 Gun Advice For Women “get a shotgun”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW2I5LS08H8
.357????
Only in daylight.
One shot at night & you’ll be blind for 5 min. & the bad guy will nail you...
Why would one cop engage another cop in a gun fight? Locker room talk gone wrong?
Yeah, that’s the spirit! The .357 is excellent for going through a few walls and several people. Why not a .44 mag? Bigger booolit dontcha know. You can play Dirty Harry for your friends and neighbors.
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