Christianity didn’t teach world domination via the sword and other means either before or after its Reformation.
The only way to so “reform” Islam would be to chuck the Koran, which would be chucking Islam.
The Mohammed Factor
If you condemn murder you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn thievery you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn rape you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn pedophilia you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn terrorism you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn Mohammed you condemn Islam.
Please study your history and you will see that Christianity did not really get into the sword method till hundreds of years after its founding. The Reformation brought it back to its original roots.
Islam was always and specifically spread by the sword, except of for their trade legations to Indonesia. And once the religion was ensconced in Indonesia, they began the same pattern we have seen historically.
The irrepressible hatred of Islam is baked in the cake. Hatred of all others ‘becomes’ radical Islam.
If you aren’t a Muslim, they don’t care if you belong to an other religion, or none at all; they will either demand that you become a Muslim, or die ! Therefore, you really DO have a “dog in this fight” !
I would point out to the writer that Muslims are not just at odds with Jews and Christians, but with everyone who is not Muslim...so the writer is in danger of being killed also.
Sorry, this is a wrong interpretation.
The Reformation did not start the separation of church and state, it did not end power by Divine Right and did not do the other things you say.
The Reformation was about bringing Christianity back to what the reformers believed were fundamental practices
The 1700s onwards was the time when what you post happened.
Islam has undergone its reformation with the creation of the Wahabbis -- and while Christians can go back to a peaceful Christianity in the 1st century, islam in the 1st century was bloody
This did not occur due to the Reformation and indeed occurred centuries later
The net result of the reformation was that countries became either stridently lutheran or calvinist or anglican or catholic and persecuted other Christians -- the only exceptions to this in post-Reformation Europe were:
the stopping of persecution of other Christians happened:
I think we’re getting a little too bogged down in arguments as to what Christianity was like centuries ago.
I offered that example as a means to consider whether Islam can be reformed or not, because the other religion that holds that “my God is the only God and my religion is the only valid religion” found a way to stop conquering and slaughtering non-believers.
You can dispute that history, but what is far more important is how we can deal with Islam today, because what is being done now [inviting them in and trying to adjust to them rather than expecting them to assimilate] is not working.
Those of you who are entertaining the idea of replacing Islam with your religion as a solution are not being realistic.
If it turns out that Islam cannot be reformed — and certainly Islamic scriptures, history as well as current fanaticism may indicate this — then I fall back upon containment within traditional Islamic homelands and not allowing Muslims to settle in our nations.
What has served to contain Islamic expansion prior to the 20th Century is the economic and technological deterioration that inevitably accompanies totalitarianism. But the West is unwittingly providing the means to overcome this and that has to stop.
If Islam refuses to live in peace with non-believers, let them stew in their own juices.
Hate the sin, not the sinner. Islam though all too often appears to be little more than an ongoing criminal organization with the sacrament of violence and a totalitarian approach to others.
It’s unfortunate, but sometimes I believe that only at the Judgement will most understand what Christianity was all about. All of Europe or All of America or all of some other place might say they are Christian but that usually means they give mental assent to the teachings of Christ (at best) but most all do not walk the walk. No one should have to explain that many want to USE Christianity for their own purposes - whether they be kings and politicians or Joe Snott the rag man’s son.
Christianity is a Jewish religion. The first Christians were Jews (remember?). Christianity is basically God’s new covenant with the Jews. The Church has no covenant. The Church has not “replaced” Israel as many ignorants have insisted. God only made a covenant with the Jews. Salvation is of the Jews. The Jews, contrary to Walford, were to evangelize the nations. They failed at that and many other things. But don’t get smug, they were an example to the world of how God deals with us individually and how he deals with nations. We are to learn from their mistakes.
After the cross and resurrection of Christ, Gentiles (non-jews) are grafted in to the linage of Abraham if they show the kind of faith that Abraham demonstrated (a trust in God’s goodness and unequalled power). Christ taught that “no one comes to the Father but by me.”No one comes unless they are drawn by the Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches that Faith is a gift, that the way is “narrow and few there be that find it.” When it comes to true believers, I wouldn’t look for crowds, let alone nations. Christ’s call is for disciples, not decisions and not mental assent as to His truth claims. It is a call to lay down your life. It is a call to do Christ’s bidding and to burn out for him with little thought to yourself. The self-life is, and will continue to be, the most popular life style for selfish, self-centered, entitled fallen human beings that think they can have the world and Jesus, too. To find true Christianity, you have to go back before the reformation, before Aquinas, before Constantine. You have to go back to the book of Acts and the rest of the New Testament.
When a nation acknowledges the truth claims of Christ and the Bible and bases their laws on those ideas, yes, things generally may go better for that nation. It does have a sanctifying effect on their culture. I think that was something the Founders of this nation strove to achieve. The closer we came to that the better we were. In spite of all our poor attempts, at least we knew the direction to a better country and culture. For now, we live in the enemy’s playground - in a fallen and cursed world. A true Christian nation will have to wait for the Kingdom of Christ.
It’s all right here in the book of murder and mayhem, the Koran. Koran is filled (80-90%) with hate for Christians, Jews and blacks. It instructs to kill and conquer them and take their lands and possessions. Muslims believe the Koran to be the perfect word of their god, Allah.
These are the verses that the Islamist terrorists us to justify their murders:
THE KORAN INSTRUCTS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT CHRISTIANS, JEWS AND CONQUER THE WORLD FOR ISLAM:
(The following are only a few of the verses commanding Muslims to fight)
WARFARE IS ORDAINED FOR YOU, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. (2.216)
“AND FIGHT THEM UNTIL THERE IS NO PERSECUTION , AND RELIGION SHALL BE ONLY FOR ALLAH 2:193
If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39
Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111
Fight those among the People of the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] ... who do not profess the true religion, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (9.29)
ISLAM IS THE MOST RACIST, BIGOTED RELIGION, AND THE KORAN IS FILLED WITH HATE FOR ALL OTHER THAN MUSLIMS:
no one tells the African-Americans that it was the Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves, neither the fact that in Arabic the word for black and slave is the same, “Abed.â€
(It is taught in textbooks in some Muslims countries today that Christians are monkeys and Jews are pigs)
Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Whoever says Muhammad was black must be killed…(Ash-Shifa, Tr. Aisha Abdarrahman, 2004)
Disbelievers’ faces will be black on the judgment day and they will receive God’s penalty...3:106 White faces on the judgment day will receive God’s mercy...3:107
Allah will reward the doers of good with paradise and much more, their faces will be radiant-stained; they will never be humiliated. The unbelievers’ faces will be turned dark…10:26-27
Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, the companion of Sahnun said, “Anyone who says that the Prophet was black should be killed. (ibid, p.375)
In one Hadith, Mohammed referred to Blacks as Raisn Heads (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256), and as pug nosed slaves in Sahih Moslem vol. 9 pages 46 and 47.
Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis.9:34
Jesus was not the Son of God. Those who say he was (Christians) are going to hell. 19:35-37
Scourge adulteresses with 100 stripes. Do not show them any pity. Have a party of believers watch the punishment. 24:2
EVIL-CRUELTY IN THE KORAN
Mutilaton of women?
That this occurred also among Muslims is shown by the following hadith:
Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah:
A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 5251)
Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195 Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33 The transgressors will roast in the Fire and be forced to drink boiling liquids followed by ice cold drinks. 38:55-9
THE KORAN PROMISES COUNTRIES TO CONQUER AND THE SPOILS THERIN:
Sura 33 “And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden” (33.27) .
MUSLIMS ARE INSTRUCTED IN THE KORAN TO BE STILL UNTIL THEY HAVE THE NUMBERS IN THE COUNTRIES THEY HAVE INVADED:
“Be patient with unbelievers until you have strength” (86.17).
THE KORAN INSTRUCTS MUSLIMS TO BE DECEPTIVE: Quran 3:28 Don’t have unbelieving friends unless it is to deceive them. Remember the final goal is to Allah.
SHARIA LAW MUST RULE THE WORLD
Allah’s law (Sharia) is binding to all…4:135
Allah accepts only Sharia and no other laws…7:29, 57:25
Allah is the Law-giver; He appointed Muhammad to implement the only correct laws (Sharia laws)…45:18
Quran 9:33 ISLAM WILL PREVAIL OVER ALL RELIGIONS
THE FOUNDER OF CAIR HAS TOLD US PLAINLY OF ISLAM’S OBJECTIVE IN AMERICA:
“ISLAM ISN’T IN AMERICA TO BE EQUAL TO ANY OTHER FAITH, BUT TO BECOME DOMINANT. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth. Everthing we need to know is in the Koran. We don’t need to look somewhere else.”
OMAR M. AHMAD, CHAIRMAN OF CAIR, the mainsteam Muslim advocacy group.
_______________________
Every “moderate†Muslim is a potential terrorist. The belief in Islam is like a tank of gasoline. It looks innocuous, until it meets the fire. For a “moderate†Muslim to become a murderous jihadist, all it takes is a spark of faith.
Ali Sina
_________________
I’m not rich but I would be happy to support every person murdered by Jesus Christ forever. I could not afford a cup of water for every person killed by muhammad himself.
The author has no idea what they’re talking about.
“...whether we should “hate” all Muslims...”
That’s up to the individual to decide and I think it’s beside the point: What to do with violent Islam?
Nothing politically acceptable is available that would be the slightest bit effective.
The moment anyone - muslims in particular due to the profile of a terrorist — ventures a hair’s width into the realm of terrorism, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. I don’t think we do that today. The blind-sheikh connected to the ‘93 WTC bombings should have executed and wasn’t. Now he serves (as has already happened) as an excuse for subsequent terrorist acts to try and free him, swap him for hostages, whatever. So we (as a society) have yet to take terrorism as seriously as it deserves.
Martyr terrorists immediately. Do not leave them on the table as a bargaining chip, which is how other terrorists will view them.
Now, although I identify as Christian, I could not honestly claim to be a “good Christian”. I’m certainly not Jesus or even “Jesus Like”. So *personally* I would have no qualms or moral issues dropping a tactical nuke on all muslim holy sites, beginning with mecca and medina. And just to clean out the pantry of any old stuff we have lying around, I’d repeat the strikes with anything less than 20kt yield for a few random cycles until the local environments were so polluted and irradiated, nothing - absolutely nothing - could survive for a looooong time. The only sites I would spare would be those within the boundaries of Israel and I would urge/support Israel to manage access to those site strictly and return them to full Jewish control.
That would be a good start. And it will never happen. So we had better get used to terrorists attacks in the news and be personally prepared to defend ourselves at all times, even at home.
But that’s just me and I can be a bit of an a-hole when it comes to terrorists.
Whatever the most effective answer(s) proves to be - I’m pretty darned confident it will not be politically correct and the liberal left will be adamantly against it.
I stopped right there. The god the Muslims worship is not the God of Israel. Islam is another form of satanism.
“Those who worship the God of Abraham [Jews, Christians and Muslims] have this history in common: Theological Exclusivism [my God is the only God and my religion is the only valid religion].”
It is not true that Muslims worship the God of Creation Whom Jews and Christians worship. Simply not true.
Saying that Muslims worship the God of Abraham flies in the face of their Koran which states that Ishmael, not Isaac, was the son of Abraham and Sarah. This is a lie.
Muslims worship Allah, a false god as false as Baal and Moloch and which like those two, demands human sacrifice (slaying of infidels). Allah demands that Muslims kill; God asks his worshippers to love their neighbors.
There are not “three Abrahamic religions” as Muslims demand that we accept, there are only two.
I will make my point even clearer than that:
Nuke Makkah NOW!
If you don't think you have a dog in this fight you're blind!
Islam can not undergo such a reformation. At it's heart islam is a violent, bloodthirsty, misogynistic, triumphalist ideology. The kind of reformation that would make islam compatible with the modern world would require that the koran and hadith and other 'holy' teachings be abandoned and that won't happen. when isis beheads their prisoners they are emulating their great prophet and treating their captives exactly as he treated his and doing what he commands. When suicide bombers blow up Jews and Christians they're not perverting their religion. They're being faithful to it's teachings. They are not twisting anything out of context or violating any teaching of their faith. That's the problem.
It seems that the main theme to the comments here is to ignore my analysis of Islam, get defensive about Christianity as was practiced centuries ago and go into why Muslims do not worship the same God [which, whether true or not, is irrelevant to the political point about how to respond to the expansion of Islam into Western homelands] and that Islam cannot be reformed.
OK, so then what? For my part, if that is the case, then I fall back upon my option of containment, keeping non-peaceful Muslims out of Western homelands — and removing those who are already here.
As I stated earlier, starting when Constantine converted to Christianity in the 4th century, there is considerable political advantage to practitioners of a religion in which theirs is the only God and theirs is the only “proper” way to worship. It not only permits, but obliges the faithful to impose their religion on others by force of arms if necessary; saving souls for the infinite afterlife is far more important than saving finite lives.
For entire nations in the Christian and Islamic past, theological exclusivism has been interpreted as providing Divine Sanction for plunder and conquest.
Most Pagans believe that the Almighty will appear to a given tribe at a given time in a form [or forms] that they would accept as Divine. Such people will find themselves overwhelmed by True Believers who will not peacefully abide any other faith or Gods.
Islam in its current form takes it beyond this and will also not live in peace with other faiths that supposedly worship the same God — and even different sects within their own faith. Hence, nobody victimizes Muslims more than other Muslims.