In places like LA, they carry them in the trunks of vehicles etc., and if they have time to deploy them, they will use them. Like they should have in this incident, since they had plenty of time.
Posted on 11/25/2015 11:57:19 AM PST by IChing
In the latest high-profile racial railroading of a white policeman for obvious political reasons, it has taken authorities over a full year to decide to charge Chicago cop Jason Van Dyke in the fatal shooting of black 17-year-old Laquan McDonald.
The obviousness of the racial/political theater here is largely due to the fact that the timing of the ridiculous charge — first degree murder — being suddenly announced after all these months, so transparently coincides with the sudden FOIA public release of a police dashcam video of the shooting which, to the untrained eye, looks pretty bad.
The video in question has been in the possession of the authorites this entire time. If it was a bad shoot, especially if so bad as to amount to first degree murder, they should have charged him long ago, apart from the racially ginned-up public and media hysteria wrought by release of the video, no?
As for allegations about the incident itself, there are some gray areas, and some clear-cut lines.
Officers were attempting to apprehend McDonald, who was later determined to have had PCP in his system, after he had been rampaging around the area and using a knife to not only break into cars and other property, but also slashed the tire of a police car in an initial attempt to arrest him just moments before he encountered Van Dyke and other officers.
The video shows that McDonald was not “walking away from†the officers, as many are insisting; he was walking briskly abreast of them and turning toward them(4:45), his left hand inside his pocket and swinging the knife in his right hand.
Most police officers are trained on the “21-foot ruleâ€(also known as the Tueller Drill), the distance at which an officer’s “reactionary gap†(the time it takes the officer to recognize the threat, reach, draw, aim, and fire on the subject) puts his own life in jeopardy from a subject with an edged weapon.
Here’s a very good demonstration of the 21-foot rule:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KJ1R2PCMM
It has been proven over and over again (unfortunately not only in training drills but in many cases where officers have been murdered/gravely wounded) that an agile subject with an edged weapon can suddenly, as rapidly as 1.5 seconds, close a distance of up to 21 feet to fatally stab/slash a victim, even kill or seriously wound a trained police officer armed with a gun.
That’s LESS time than it takes an officer to recognize the threat, reach, draw, aim, and fire on the subject — the “reactionary gap.†1.23 seconds is the fastest closing time of the 21-foot distance measured.
I played the video over and over at various speeds, and the taser wires are visible well before McDonald shows any kind of reaction(indicating that the taser may not have functioned immediately or properly), and he actually turns toward the officers(4:45) as he walks briskly abreast of them with the wires attached, swinging the knife in one hand, with his other hand in his pocket.
Then, it looks like the gunfire is what brings him down, because you can see dust/debris kicked up as the rounds hit the concrete around/under McDonald’s body when he falls.
If Van Dyke believed the taser did not function, it can be argued that he legitimately perceived McDonald (who had just slashed a police car’s tire with the knife) to be an imminent deadly threat within the 21-foot reactionary gap.
That perception wouldn’t mean that he necessarily HAD to shoot McDonald, but it would definitely mean he’s not guilty of murder.
The 21-foot rule has come under scrutiny and criticism in recent years/months, and I predict it will (as “stand your ground,†as misapplied as it was, in the Zimmerman case) be the centerpiece of this case.
Not guilty.
Oh, and by the way, as for the number of shots fired, the official answer is that once deadly force is deemed justified, the number of shots is really moot — although we all know that the public, media, and jurors can imagine that there can be some kind of “excessive†force beyond deadly force.
I’ve given you links to read the law. In your position you should do that before you ever come to Oklahoma. Maybe its different where you are.
Who do you suppose wrote the article that you either didn’t read, didn’t comprehend, or both? You haven’t had the relevant training, btw.
Any intentional discharge of a firearm with respect to a suspect is a use of deadly force, even if the target is missed. Legally any use of deadly force must be justified by law and circumstances. An intentional “shooting to wound” is still a use of deadly force and must fit the same legal criteria as if the suspect dies. BTW, suspects can die of a wound thru shock or blood loss.
I know the role that perception plays in cases like this, but in the legal sense, one round or 16 amounts to the same legally.
One must ask.. does Laquan have blog?
Is Laquan trying to divert traffic to his blog?
In places like LA, they carry them in the trunks of vehicles etc., and if they have time to deploy them, they will use them. Like they should have in this incident, since they had plenty of time.
Here is part of the code ... I've clipped it from the website I gave you a link to. It is what it is... whether we think it is a correct interpretation or not. Premeditation is deciding to kill someone, and then doing it. It does not require planning, lots of thought, etc..
May I suggest you have a nice Thanksgiving. I am not in the mood to have this argument. Let’s just call it a day, have a drink, and eat turkey.
Exactly. Malice. Not self-defense or defense of others, which also require thought. You have to learn to be precise.
Read the article and watch the video. Pay attention.
You have to put yourself inside his head for premeditation. There has to be proof he decided to kill. That’s hard to do. It’s just as likely he panicked in the heat of the moment and emptied his magazine. We don’t know.
Based on the video... I think self defense will be difficult to argue. Defense of others? Who specifically? The public at large?? Whatever.
You have to decide it was his intent to kill in every single case. Shooting him 16 times will make it tough to argue that it was an accident.
why not 3 foot batons?
The guy was walking away. After he was shot, he fell to the ground. It appears the “threat” ended at that point. And this cop had 16 complaints? No excuse.
Now that's a thought that makes sense and is consistent with the law.
You obviously missed what I said at the end about juries, media, public, etc...especially juries.
Oh, the horror, he used “excessive” deadly force after he’d already fatally shot him....
I’ve stated my opinion. I’m not going to spend time arguing on the internet about it.
No, the problem is that you misrepresented the law. Self-defense is intentional also, but without malice. Your sloppy blanket definition regarding thought is the issue.
The part that you are missing is that the number of shots will be used to establish intent. It will be difficult to argue that he did not intend to kill the guy when he shot him 16 times. So now you have to watch the video and determine if it was self defense, defense of someone else etc. To make the shoot justifiable. If you can’t come up with some really good reason to justify killing this guy... something that makes sense to a jury, and is consistent with the applicable law... it is what it is guy. I know you’re the expert. But the internet is filled with people who went to jail for a long time for lots less than shooting someone 16 times.
They could have easily deployed a number of very effective non-lethal weapons on the suspect. They had lots of time here.
See the female at #105
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