[rlmorel]

We need to stop doing this.

McCain had zero, zilch, nada, nothing to do with the fire on the USS Forrestal, and we should just stop letting people get away with saying he did here on Free Republic. We should put a stop to it once and for all, it makes us look ignorant when we even imply it, because it it so far removed from the truth.

I marked up this diagram to show the factual path of the Zuni rocket that fired, and it was accidentally set off by stray voltage because the deck crews were engaging in an officially sanctioned shortcut to try to save some time. Those kinds of things happen in wartime.

As you can see McCain drew the lucky straw of having his plane hit, and was simply a participant in the issue trying to survive the fire, which he was fortunate to do, given what happened.

Let me reiterate as I have said in many threads before this one: I knew of McCain as a kid when I lived overseas as a dependent, and when I joined the Navy, I served under him as an airman apprentice in a training squadron (VA-172) for a short period of time. I even served my tour of duty in VA-46, which was the squadron McCain was flying in when the incident on the USS Forrestal occurred.

I dislike him as a candidate, I intensely despise his policies and the way he conducts himself as a politician, I only voted for him back in 2008 because of the abysmal quality of the candidates available to vote for. I would far rather have had someone else to vote for, but Palin was enough for me to swallow it.

But saying that, we should less disparage McCain for his military service than we should attack him for his politics.

As a naval aviator, he wasn't at the top of his class. He wasn't a great pilot, a good one, or perhaps even a well qualified one. There is evidence he may have been a negligent or openly bad one. But that can be said of a great many men, not just him. Everyone who puts on a g-suit, helmet and parachute isn't a God. I speak from experience, there are good ones and bad ones. And after watching them, everyone gets to know what bucket each pilot falls into.

But he WAS serving his country. He DID take off from a carrier with ordinance to fight the enemy in a time of war. He WAS shot down. He WAS grievously wounded, and DID spend years of his life (some of them in terrible physical shape) being maltreated by an enemy who DID try to exploit his unique status as the son of well known and high ranking Naval Veterans. And he didn't disgrace himself by letting himself get sent home.

We can ALL decry him for things like McCain-Feingold, Immigration, and a host of other issues. And there is a special degree of vilification that he deserves for his shameful actions regarding POW/MIA issues.

I was not in the Hanoi Hilton, so I am not going to pass judgement on what went on with him there. I understand there are POWs who served with him who feel strongly (in a negative way) about his conduct and behavior there, so I will let them carry the ball. That IS their prerogative, and we should all let them press the issue as they see fit.

Just my opinion.

[exnavy]

That is the point I have been trying to make here, as well. Thank you for the post.

[ScottinVA]

Great post. I couldn’t agree more.

[grania]

FWIW, I’m willing to cede “McCain was a war hero”. I wasn’t there, so anything else would be subjective. But after McCain returned home? He’s nothing but a path of destruction.

[taxcontrol]

I agree. Any man who steps onto a battle field, be it land, sea or air and honorably fights for his country has done more than 95% of the rest of the population of this nation. I will not disparage his service.

Like I said before, NONE of the Forrestal fire attaches to Lt McCain. Even if he was “hot dogging”, his exhaust is vectored away from the rest of the aircraft and had no part in starting the fire.

[Reverend Saltine]

THIS ARTICLE CONTAINS THE IMPORTANT PHRASE: "Wesley Clark, a retired army general...said...that getting shot down did not qualify anyone to be president." I tried to post this but the thread got pulled. If anybody knows how to do this, please do it?

[katana]

Didn’t say I believed it was his fault. Only that the article mentioned it and that based on his prior record the suspicions were predictable. In an earlier age and navy he might have been thought a Jonah. He seemed to attract unfortunate events and I’d count the election of Obama in 2008 as the worst of the lot.

[Democratic-Republican]

I'd say you're correct about the ship fire being a purely unbelievable incident of bad luck. But so incredibly many sailors lost in that accident.

What is interesting is that although it wasn't McCain's fault, is that someone still kept him on active duty, likely directly attributable to his pedigree. Had they acted, no Hanoi Hilton later. You can't make this stuff up. Even the whiff of involvement in something of that magnitude is a red flag for normal people.

What I mean is you have a reckless youngster prone to pushing boundaries ( okay so far, brash pilot SoP ), who is an Admiral's son ( presumably under more scrutiny than everyone else, or maybe under less! ), but crashes not one, not two, but three planes before getting near Vietnam ( others would surely have been bounced by now, did you read about the one in Spain? )

... then ... on the carrier he is the recipient of the short straw accidentally targeting him out of every other possible plane to take the errant rocket. It's as if God himself gave the commander a perfect reason, ( a fourth chance overall ) to yank him prior to the fateful Hanoi journey. Amazing.

If the story ended for him in Spain ( his fault ) or after that massive loss life onboard ( not his fault ) he never would have went to Hanoi and we would never heard his name again, at least as a war hero that our U.S. Senate just can't do without. America, The Constitution and the Republic itself would be far healthier for it.

So there is a long list of people to blame for a long unbroken chain of events that all had to come together precisely to yield this nasty politician that has made a career crapping on the Constitution he swore to support and defend. Well if he took the oath. Maybe he skipped that day, hungover or something. It happens I guess if you're an Admiral's son.

[Another Post-American]

Thanks, very much, for your detailed and well thought out response. I’ll take it all to heart!

[Jack Hydrazine]

“As you can see McCain drew the lucky straw of having his plane hit,...”

He’s a disaster where ever he walks in life just like Obama and the other collectivists.

[Jack Hydrazine]

“As a naval aviator, he wasn’t at the top of his class. He wasn’t a great pilot, a good one, or perhaps even a well qualified one.”

He was at the bottom 894 of 899 in his graduating class. He piled on demerits while in school. He was a crappy pilot. I think he even might have been an affirmative action student based on his father and grandfather being admirals in the USN.

Then you look at what he did to his first wife when was freed from the Vietnamese POW camp - he betrayed his wife. Just look at what he did as a POW which makes him a traitor.

Look at how he suppressed the desire of the public to find any POWs that were left behind.

Look at the Keating Five scandal which he should have gone to jail for.

He failed at running for POTUS.

He’s just another John eFfing Kerry in Pubbie drag.