The Day John McCain Got Shot Down

Pythia Press ^ | 2010 | Zalin Grant

[KeyLargo]

The Day John McCain Got Shot Down

Did He Show the Right Stuff? By Zalin Grant

John McCain received mixed reviews from fellow pilots when he arrived on the USS Oriskany in 1967, a month before he was shot down and captured. Cal Swanson, commander of fighter squadron VF-162, was enthusiastic. Swanson thought McCain proved he had the right stuff by getting himself assigned to the Oriskany, an aircraft carrier sailing off the coast of North Vietnam in the South China Sea. The Oriskany had seen more combat and suffered heavier casualties than any ship in the Vietnam War. McCain’s own aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, had been put out of action by a horrific fire two months earlier.

After the Forrestal fire, McCain was assigned to Saigon as a navy PR aide. He was perfect for the job—handsome, charming, witty. He had met R.W. (Johnny) Apple, a well-known reporter for the New York Times, and Apple had smoothed his way in Saigon by introducing him to journalists and to the U.S. military and civilian command.

John McCain could have served out his tour flacking for the navy and having a lot of fun doing it—dining at Saigon’s French restaurants and hitting the bars full of pretty Vietnamese girls. But McCain wanted to get back into combat. He had completed only five missions before the Forrestal fire. Cal Swanson thought McCain’s attitude reflected well on his courage and patriotism.

McCain would not be joining VF-162, Swanson’s fighter squadron, however. McCain was not a fighter pilot, although in later years the media would perpetuate the mistaken belief that he was. Trained as an A-4 bomber pilot, he was assigned to attack squadron VA-163, which had an illustrious history.

[Democratic-Republican]

So sorry about your pops.

Thanks for the story, what a roar that Mustang would have made! And what a sight to see. 'Oh that's a cute little 302 you got there, check out mine'.

Apropos of the standards. They also seem to vary wildly within the same time period too. So do standards for VIPs. I was just thinking of Sen. Gore's pampered son onshore with a camera and bodyguard while the Admiral ( who certainly must have received some reports about Sidney ) inexplicably lets his loose cannon risk everything. It's surreal.

Imagine being the aide for the Admiral that has to continually walk in an say: 'Uh sir, well you see yer boy was in Spain, and well, there's this blackout, and well ..."

[Another Post-American]

Thanks, very much, for your detailed and well thought out response. I’ll take it all to heart!

[rlmorel]

Thanks, APA.

I learned much about this in the USN, but if you are interested in this mishap, I would suggest the book “Sailors To The End”.

Besides being fascinating reading, it is generally considered to be the best book on the subject.

[rlmorel]

Thanks... It is a fascinating subject, and the downside of making posts like ours has the effect of shutting down the thread… :-)

One of the things that a lot of people don’t know is that the way the USS Forrestal (and other carriers as well) were built, The ship was in significant danger from the liquid oxygen generation plant back around the port quarter on the ship.

If the flames had reached the compartment, explosion would’ve been massive, and there’s no telling what might’ve happened.

After the incident, it was one of the lessons they learned, and they modified all other carriers to mount the liquid oxygen system on rails, so that in the event of a spreading fire, A large hatch on the side of the ship could be opened, and the liquid oxygen generation unit could be shoved over the side.

[grania]

I've been thinking about your dilemma. Of course you should defend John McCain's conduct in that incident, vigorously. You were there and you know what happened.

I've been thinking about the whole Viet Nam effect on the US. For just about everyone in our generation, it tore us apart from the dreams and expectations we grew up with. Our parents believed WW2 would end war for good, and Korea was an adjustment that had to be made as the world settled down. During the cold war, we trusted Ike to keep the world safe. And then along came Viet Nam, with a whole new set of reasons to go to war.

I don't think I'm alone in this. It's just not right to criticize or judge anyone about their Viet Nam experience, having never been there and having never been in the situation to have to decide what I'd do if faced with fighting a war I didn't want to. So, no, I won't judge McCain on what he did there, but it certainly doesn't excuse his behavior since. Most people who suffered because of Viet Nam lead good, decent lives, and have not advocated sending others to wars that might have been avoided.

And then the hypocrisy gets to me. The "Swift-Boating" of John Kerry was inexcusable. What he did in the war is not fair game, and the double standard is particularly disturbing.

The Trump situation criticizing McCain's war record? It was harsh. But McCain can't expect to remain unscathed if he insists on calling people he disagrees with whacko-birds and crazies, etc. I'm glad someone finally pushed back.

As far as criticizing Trump's not being in the war? Like I said earlier, "don't criticize what you don't understand". It's just not fair game to judge young men's responses when faced with that situation.

Thank you. This has been a good exercise in clarifying my own very difficult emotions about that era and the fallout from it.

[rlmorel]

There is much you say that I agree with, but I could not disagree with you more strenuously about the treatment of John Kerry. (Also, I wasn't in Vietnam with McCain, I served with him two years after they released him from Hanoi)

This is in no way personal towards you, grania...I just feel quite differently about it. I had the opportunity to meet a number of the Swift Boat Veterans while counter protesting Code Pink outside of Walter Reed.

I spent about four hours with them on a nasty, freezing December, and had ample opportunity to discuss a wide range of subjects with them as we supported the troops inside Walter Reed. And they had plenty of scathing criticism of John Kerry, and given the source, and the vehemency to which they described their negative opinion of him, I was inclined to agree with them.

I drove around with this on my car up here in Massachusetts for the better part of a year, and while my car was never vandalized, I did get flipped off by a middle-aged woman with her gray hair up in bun!

I am loathe to criticize any veteran of a war, unless there circumstances to do so, and my two main reasons are: They throw their lot in with the extreme left to sabotage our troops who are still in combat, or they are an outright traitor.

As far as I am concerned, John Kerry is a traitor. He met with the North Vietnamese in Paris in May of 1970 while he was still in US Naval Reserves. He should have been tried and convicted under the UCMJ (Never mind the Logan Act) which which specifically forbids the type of activities he was engaged in. He is a despicable piece of crap, and is so viewed by the vast majority of men who served directly with him.

Please note that this is not an indictment of your view on this, grania, I respect that, but completely disagree with it.

[Jack Hydrazine]

“As you can see McCain drew the lucky straw of having his plane hit,...”

He’s a disaster where ever he walks in life just like Obama and the other collectivists.

[Jack Hydrazine]

“As a naval aviator, he wasn’t at the top of his class. He wasn’t a great pilot, a good one, or perhaps even a well qualified one.”

He was at the bottom 894 of 899 in his graduating class. He piled on demerits while in school. He was a crappy pilot. I think he even might have been an affirmative action student based on his father and grandfather being admirals in the USN.

Then you look at what he did to his first wife when was freed from the Vietnamese POW camp - he betrayed his wife. Just look at what he did as a POW which makes him a traitor.

Look at how he suppressed the desire of the public to find any POWs that were left behind.

Look at the Keating Five scandal which he should have gone to jail for.

He failed at running for POTUS.

He’s just another John eFfing Kerry in Pubbie drag.