The Day John McCain Got Shot Down

Pythia Press ^ | 2010 | Zalin Grant

[KeyLargo]

The Day John McCain Got Shot Down

Did He Show the Right Stuff? By Zalin Grant

John McCain received mixed reviews from fellow pilots when he arrived on the USS Oriskany in 1967, a month before he was shot down and captured. Cal Swanson, commander of fighter squadron VF-162, was enthusiastic. Swanson thought McCain proved he had the right stuff by getting himself assigned to the Oriskany, an aircraft carrier sailing off the coast of North Vietnam in the South China Sea. The Oriskany had seen more combat and suffered heavier casualties than any ship in the Vietnam War. McCain’s own aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, had been put out of action by a horrific fire two months earlier.

After the Forrestal fire, McCain was assigned to Saigon as a navy PR aide. He was perfect for the job—handsome, charming, witty. He had met R.W. (Johnny) Apple, a well-known reporter for the New York Times, and Apple had smoothed his way in Saigon by introducing him to journalists and to the U.S. military and civilian command.

John McCain could have served out his tour flacking for the navy and having a lot of fun doing it—dining at Saigon’s French restaurants and hitting the bars full of pretty Vietnamese girls. But McCain wanted to get back into combat. He had completed only five missions before the Forrestal fire. Cal Swanson thought McCain’s attitude reflected well on his courage and patriotism.

McCain would not be joining VF-162, Swanson’s fighter squadron, however. McCain was not a fighter pilot, although in later years the media would perpetuate the mistaken belief that he was. Trained as an A-4 bomber pilot, he was assigned to attack squadron VA-163, which had an illustrious history.

[tflabo]

All good info from the past. McLame as a senator sucks soooo bad and he’s a DC elitist. Nothing new...time to move away from him and onto the front lines of the current war within.

[KeyLargo]

McCain is just one more Naval flyer with a poor record of piloting skills and family connections that helped.

RETIRED NAVY CAPTAIN WHO SHOT DOWN
AIR FORCE F-4 AS A LTJG, NOW WITH COMPANY
THAT TARGETS TROOPS WITH BAD CREDIT
TIM DORSEY’S DADDY A RETIRED VICE ADMIRAL
DID YOUNG DORSEY GET SPECIAL TREATMENT?
HE GENERAL COUNSEL FOR USA DISCOUNTERS
VIRGINIA FIRM SUES MANY SERVICE-MEMBERS
WHO FALL BEHIND ON THEIR PAYMENTS

CAPT TIMOTHY DORSEYJust when we thought we’d heard the last of the pampered son of a Navy vice-admiral - MilitaryCorruption.com helped stop Tim Dorsey from reaching flag rank a couple years ago, (he has since retired from the Naval Reserve as a four-striper) - he’s back.

The 51 year-old Dorsey is general counsel for a shady outfit called USA Distributors. The Virginia firm is known for targeting enlisted service-members with bad credit, then suing them in court, knowing the money will be garnished from their pay check.

In 1987, Timmy boy was a lieutenant junior-grade and F-14 fighter-pilot. That’s when the dummy scored a direct hit on a U.S. Air Force F-4 Phantom jet, blowing the tail off the friendly war plane during war games and nearly killing it’s two man crew.

IT HELPS TO HAVE A DADDY WHO’S AN ADMIRAL

Many people thought such a screw-up would result in young Dorsey being booted from the Navy. But the fact that Dorsey’s powerful daddy was a vice-admiral with Pentagon connections saved his son’s ass.

Fast forward 25 years, and the same screwed-up Naval officer - he switched to intelligence corps after being grounded - was close to making flag rank. That was headed off, thank God, and Dorsey decided to retire as a captain from the Naval Reserve.

But he’s back in the news as the pious chief lawyer for USA Distributors.

Get a load of his official statement:

“I am proud of my 30 years as a Navy officer in service to this country. I’m also proud of the work USA Discount has done in supporting military service members as well as programs aimed at veterans, youth and military families.

“To suggest that someone who wears the uniform of his country would treat fellow service members in any capacity with anything other than honor and respect, is both personally offensive and factually without merit.”

Spoken like a lawyer. In others words, so much bullshit.

A FLIER’S LIFE AND CAREER RUINED

We know one ex-pilot and disabled former Air Force light colonel who isn’t buying Dorsey’s pompous and pretentious remarks.

Mike Ross has endured 32 surgeries in the past 27 years from his injuries bailing out of his crippled jet at 635 miles per hour. A bad back has him in constant pain.

The Georgia resident was shocked that Dorsey remained in the Navy after shooting the Air Force jet down and that his family connections almost got him admiral’s rank. As for the bad reputation of USA Distributors., Ross is not at all surprised.

Not with “hot-trigger” Tim Dorsey as their chief attorney.

http://www.militarycorruption.com/timdorsey3.htm2014 MilitaryCorruption.com

“Dorsey was nominated by the Obama administration for promotion to rear admiral in February. The request sat dormant in the Senate Armed Services Committee, which adjourned last week without considering it.”

[USNBandit]

One of the richest characters I ever met was a grizzled old "permanent" instructor at the training base in Kingsville Texas. He told us the first time he was shot down it was because he reattacked the target. The second time he got shot down it was when he reattacked the target. He said after that there was one thing he would never do, ever. Reattack a target.

For all the criticism of McCain's flying skills, he kept manning up. He avoided safer assignments that were offered. His motivations could be a mix of character traits that aren't desirable in either a naval officer or a president, but fear wasn't one of them. As far as getting preferential treatment, Naval Aviation is a fickle community sometimes. Some guys get hammered for their first screwup, others survive multiple screw ups only to screw up again. Despite there being a system in place to take care of that, there is variable of human judgement involved. In a much less tolerant system decades later I can think of a couple complete screw ups that kept flying and had no political connections. The one guy was pretty funny, because nobody got hurt. The second killed himself, his RIO and a number of people on the ground.

I voted for John McCain because I knew how bad the alternative was. If I was an Arizona voter I would vote for his opponent in a primary. I don't believe in his politics, but it doesn't bother me sharing the title of Naval Aviator with him. The same cannot be said for the convicted crook, drunkard, and liar, Duke Cunningham. A much more effective aviator, but a total A-hole.

[Another Post-American]

Actually it was covered in the story, along with the rumor that McCain may have triggered it with his misbehavior. (Though I think that unlikely, it would fit the overall portrayal of him.)

[KeyLargo]

Thank you for your service. :)

Yes, Randy Cunningham became corrupt, but he did sponsor pro law-enforcement off-duty and retired-gun carry legislation that later passed and was signed by G.W.

U.S. SENATE PASSES CONCEALED CARRY BILL FOR POLICE OFFICERS

July 7, 2004—The United States Senate today passed H.R. 218, the ‘National Concealed Carry for Cops’ bill by a unanimous margin. The bill exempts qualified active duty and retired peace officers from state and local prohibitions on the carrying of concealed weapons. Active and retired peace officers will be able to carry concealed weapons when travelling outside their own jurisdictions and in other states.

First proposed in 1992 by Representative Randy Cunningham (R-California), and lobbied for heavily by the Law Enforcement Alliance of America and the Fraternal Order of Police, the bill has met with some stiff resistance over the past twelve years.

Some of America’s most noted anti-gun politicians criticized the legislation, including Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy, who spoke on the record about his fears of retired police officers carrying concealed “sniper rifles”.
Another anti-gun politician from Massachusetts said he needed more reassurance that retired officers wouldn’t be allowed to carry concealed “grenades”. It soon became clear that when it comes to promoting gun control, many politicians have no problem restricting even law enforcement officers from having firearms.

The bill was also opposed by the Clinton Administration, and failed to gain traction when the House and Senate were controlled by Democrats.

With the election of a Republican majority in the House and Senate, the bill began to attract more supporters. Police organizations nationwide lobbied heavily on behalf of the bill, finally picking up 297 co-sponsors in the Congress, and 70 in the Senate.

The bill passed the Congress on June 23rd, and was forwarded to the Senate. President Bush has already promised that he would sign the legislation.

Some gun owners have expressed reservations about the bill, and for a variety of reasons. Some, for example, believe that passage of the bill will dilute support from rank-and-file officers for passage of shall-issue concealed carry legislation for “civilians” in states that now lack such systems.

Others feel that the bill drives a wedge between law enforcement and gun owners by creating a two-tier system in which retired police officers have privileges not given to the general public.

Other gun owners, however, have supported the bill because they believe it will make the public more accustomed to people carrying concealed weapons, and thus make passage of shall-issue concealed carry laws more likely.

Regardless of varying opinions, though, passage of the bill is yet another victory over the anti-gun forces in DC.

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/legislativenews/retiredcops_7_7_04.html

[Yo-Yo]

It helps your career tremendously to have an Admiral as a father.

[CGASMIA68]

Not supporting or backing McCain but I read McCains aircrafts tail pipe was pointed over the side not at the AC behind him.All accounts seem to reflect that fact along with an APU being disconnected and after the switch over to onboard power there was an electrical malfunction causing the rocket to fire.

[Taxman]

This thread is in your wheelhouse, Dick.

[KeyLargo]

Published on Feb 18, 2014

The USS Forrestal, the nation’s first supercarrier, made its final journey Tuesday, Feb. 18. 2014, to the Port of Brownsville. Thousands were on hand as the giant ship made its way past the jettis on South Padre Island. The vessel’s final destination is All Star Metals’ ship-recycling facility where it will be dismantled and sold for scrap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHbOxqZU-Gw

[Moonman62]

I despise McCain’s behavior and antics as a Senator, but how about a little perspective? ADM James Stockdale, who commanded the POWs at the Hoa Loa prison and having observed their actions and behavior, said McCain served honorably while imprisoned there.

...

The only thing McCain seems to have done well in his life is being a POW.

[ScottinVA]

The only thing McCain seems to have done well in his life is being a POW.

Sounds like it... regardless, Trump should've kept his arrogant self out of that subject.

[exnavy]

We saw the official flight deck recording in boot camp damage control school, McCain in no way was a causitory figure in the Forrestal fire.

[exnavy]

I appreciate your post. I am in no way a defender of McCain, at the same time I do not want to denigrate his service record.

[Covenantor]

bkmk

[exnavy]

What ever it was , it was very clear in the flight deck footage where it came from and where it went. I do not believe McCain caused that incident.

[US Navy Vet]

In that Instance McCain was a victim of circumstance. “Right Place, Defiantly WRONG Time”!

[rlmorel]

McCain had zero to do with the fire on the USS Forrestal except being caught up in it, McGruff.

[rlmorel]

Please. Just stop this crap. It makes us look bad, and is factually incorrect.

[exnavy]

If you google Forrestal 1967 fire, it is very interesting reading. I have had the benefits of serving from 1975 to 1981 active and actually met people who were there that day. Reality is always a little less spectacular than sea stories.

[rlmorel]

We need to stop doing this.

McCain had zero, zilch, nada, nothing to do with the fire on the USS Forrestal, and we should just stop letting people get away with saying he did here on Free Republic. We should put a stop to it once and for all, it makes us look ignorant when we even imply it, because it it so far removed from the truth.

I marked up this diagram to show the factual path of the Zuni rocket that fired, and it was accidentally set off by stray voltage because the deck crews were engaging in an officially sanctioned shortcut to try to save some time. Those kinds of things happen in wartime.

As you can see McCain drew the lucky straw of having his plane hit, and was simply a participant in the issue trying to survive the fire, which he was fortunate to do, given what happened.

Let me reiterate as I have said in many threads before this one: I knew of McCain as a kid when I lived overseas as a dependent, and when I joined the Navy, I served under him as an airman apprentice in a training squadron (VA-172) for a short period of time. I even served my tour of duty in VA-46, which was the squadron McCain was flying in when the incident on the USS Forrestal occurred.

I dislike him as a candidate, I intensely despise his policies and the way he conducts himself as a politician, I only voted for him back in 2008 because of the abysmal quality of the candidates available to vote for. I would far rather have had someone else to vote for, but Palin was enough for me to swallow it.

But saying that, we should less disparage McCain for his military service than we should attack him for his politics.

As a naval aviator, he wasn't at the top of his class. He wasn't a great pilot, a good one, or perhaps even a well qualified one. There is evidence he may have been a negligent or openly bad one. But that can be said of a great many men, not just him. Everyone who puts on a g-suit, helmet and parachute isn't a God. I speak from experience, there are good ones and bad ones. And after watching them, everyone gets to know what bucket each pilot falls into.

But he WAS serving his country. He DID take off from a carrier with ordinance to fight the enemy in a time of war. He WAS shot down. He WAS grievously wounded, and DID spend years of his life (some of them in terrible physical shape) being maltreated by an enemy who DID try to exploit his unique status as the son of well known and high ranking Naval Veterans. And he didn't disgrace himself by letting himself get sent home.

We can ALL decry him for things like McCain-Feingold, Immigration, and a host of other issues. And there is a special degree of vilification that he deserves for his shameful actions regarding POW/MIA issues.

I was not in the Hanoi Hilton, so I am not going to pass judgement on what went on with him there. I understand there are POWs who served with him who feel strongly (in a negative way) about his conduct and behavior there, so I will let them carry the ball. That IS their prerogative, and we should all let them press the issue as they see fit.

Just my opinion.