Posted on 07/10/2015 1:45:45 PM PDT by Elderberry
We have been watching the Waco Twin Peaks biker shootout with interest. From the outset, this mass arrest seemed to have some problems, and now that more information has come to light, the City of Waco has opened itself up to serious civil liability. Why? Because this is a textbook example of mass arrests without individual probable cause.
At the heart of every arrest, there must be probable cause. Now, of course, probable cause is a very low standard that can usually be met, but not likely in this case. From what is currently known, the Waco Police Department decided that (nearly) all of the bikers at the Waco Twin Peaks restaurant were guilty by association – in a typical act first, ask questions later fashion.
One attorney has coined the WPD’s actions as “fill-in-the-blank” warrants, which surely could not pass constitutional muster for all 177 arrestees… that is, unless all 177 arrestees were actually in an all out brawl. Apparently, the individuals had even been interviewed separately, so that in theory, Waco actually had the time to craft probable cause affidavits that would have applied to each individual.
Strip these people of their motorcycles and leather vests and this scene could easily have played out in a family reunion setting or a protest. Just because you have the same last name or happen to be attending a giant protest doesn’t automatically make your guilty by association with a few bad seeds. Now stick those people in jail for a month, add a first degree felony, and have several lose their jobs. That creates a recipe for disaster.
He made a precise legal claim, "arrests without individual probable cause."
Well further proof that the LEO’s overreached here.
Wonder when all the “All bike club members are evil, all LEO’s are saints” crowd will arrive?
Every story that come out of Waco makes this deal stink worse.
DA related to the sheriff, PD Detective on the Grand Jury, nahh no funny business here.
Yes, he did make a claim, as did lawyers representing Charles Manson, Bernie Maddof and this week’s San Francisco murderer....
Luckily, we don’t let people out of jail just on their lawyer’s claims. They have to find a judge to agree.
There are 3742 judges in Texas. If he was right, you might think he could find just one judge to agree with him.
This guy is not even a lawyer to a party. He's expressing his reasoned point of view, and it is not just "pounding the table." The government has the burden of supporting its accusation, and it has failed to meet that burden.
Luckily, we don’t let people out of jail just on their lawyer’s claims. They have to find a judge to agree.
So let me get this straight. You are arrested. You just “find a judge” and if he agrees with your argument, you just get out of jail?
Things must work differently in Texas. Around here there are grand juries, trials.....unless the D.A. drops the charges. And there is no way that is going to happen. Yet.
It looks like advertising if he doesn’t have a dog in the race, but that doesn’t automatically make it incorrect.
Funny. I thought that one was just a UI. Have to move it to the greenhouse with the seven other plants.
What crimes are the 177 accused of?
What Constitutional rights of the 177 may or may not have been abridged?
Have you taken an oath to defend the U.S. constitution?
Typical Freepers not bothering to even scan the article stunt.
The lawyer in question doesn’t represent anyone in the case.
He appears to be commenting because Waco has been attempting to turn the law on its head.
Why are none demanding their right to a speedy trial?
The 177 are either in deep trouble or stupidly giving the prosecution plenty of time to cobble together an effective case.
You weren't doing too bad until you played the "Smear By Association" card...
No, let me share with you publicity seeking lawyers work.
The comment on cases that are NOT theirs, in the hope of getting publicity for their practice in general.
i.e. Gloria Allred
What ever is stated in the "rubber stamped" documents and filed with the court
What Constitutional rights of the 177 may or may not have been abridged?
Don't know, nor does anyone else here. That is to be decided by a court
Have you taken an oath to defend the U.S. constitution?
More times than I can remember. Probably at least 20 times in military, bar admittance, etc. From your distinguished legal career, what Constitutional violation do you allege had occurred here?
Actually, you always see a judge, magistrate or legally designated authority, within 24 to 72 hours from arrest in most jurisdictions. (That happened in this case.)
That judge sets or denies bail.
Post the money, provide collateral or a bail bond, you walk. Don’t post, you sit.
Then the Grand Jury returns a True Bill or a No Bill.
One does not usually have the pleasure of awaiting a True Bill before being arrested.
In the first few hours/days of the Duke case, Nifong absolutely did his duty.
Then, as the facts emerged, re-election became more important to Nifong than justice. The minute Crystal Magnum’s (pseudo) name emerged, Nifong should have known this wasn’t going to pass the smell test.... and he undoubtedly did know. Problem was, in Durham, he needed the Black vote.
Does the name Baltimore ring a bell?
Nifong should have been punished much more severely.
Well-founded rumors in legal circles say the State of NC quickly paid BIG settlements to everyone in the case, even those just peripherally involved, to make their cases just go away. My guess, at least $5 mil if not $10 mil or even $20mil to the three named defendants, $1 mil each to their parents, at least $250k to other team members, and down from there.
P.S., who says the State has failed to meet their burden? Some Dallas lawyer, every defense lawyer who ever made a closing argument to a jury, every person in prison, etc.
Do I think $1 mil is excessive, absolutely. Has any judge agreed? No.
Old Chinese laundry and courthouse saying: “No tickie? No washie!” It means regardless of your arguments, no court order? No relief.
P.S. I have no idea why the def’s lawyer’s aren’t making unreasonable bail arguments themselves. Unless they have evidence certain defs were actual trigger pullers, the rest, at most are $10,000 to $20,000 bail matters. Even if the State is trying make a (stupid) case for “murder by acting in consort,” $1,000,000 for most is BS.
Time to go to Da Kingfish Court.
Who says the State has failed to meet their burden? Some Dallas lawyer, every defense lawyer who ever made a closing argument to a jury, every person in prison, etc.
Do I think $1 mil is excessive? absolutely. Has any judge agreed? No.
Old Chinese laundry and courthouse saying: “No tickie? No washie!” It means regardless of your arguments, no court order? No relief.
P.S. I have no idea why the def’s lawyer’s aren’t making unreasonable bail arguments themselves. Unless they have evidence certain defs were actual trigger pullers, the rest, at most are $10,000 to $20,000 bail matters. Even if the State is trying make a (stupid) case for “murder by acting in consort,” $1,000,000 for most is BS.
Time to go to Da Kingfish Court.
You have no idea how close to reality some “outrageous lawyer/judge” movies are, and lawyers know it!
My favorite was an appeal to a certain State Appeals Court:
“Your Honors, if it may please the Court: This matter was originally heard in the 12th District Court before the Honorable Justice Mr. Cletus Daniel Byrd.
That is not our only grounds for appeal, however.”
:)
PS, “The Kingfish Court” is not a racial phrase, although it comes form the old Amos and Andy show.
The Kingfish Court, there’s one in every jurisdiction, is where you can go and get quick reasonable justice, with no delays or BS, IF THE JUDGE KNOWS AND TRUSTS YOU TO DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU WILL DO, NOT LIE ABOUT WHAT A WITNESS IS GOING TO SAY, DON’T INVENT EVIDENCE, ACKNOWLEDGE THE STRONG POINTS OF THE OTHER SIDE’S CASE, ETC!
Rule #17: never be the only counsel on a case in any court where the Judge does not ALREADY know and trust you.
Yet you smugly assert conclusions. You, sir, are the one pounding the table.
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