Posted on 05/21/2015 11:35:16 AM PDT by OK Sun
So this Waco thing has caught my interest, mostly because of all the dumb things being said about it. I’m no expert and have no direct connection to the Waco Biker shootout, nor do I have access to anything more than media reports. However, based on my experience as a patrolman, assistant active shooter instructor and soldier I’ve made a few observations and educated guesses about what happened.
I base this on a couple things, but the biggest one is a comment the Waco PD spokesman included in the official statement: “Our officers treated it as an active shooter scene.” An active shooter’s goal is to kill as many people as possible rather than steal money, take hostages or escape. A police officer who encounters an active shooter has one mission: stop the killing. The best way to stop that killing is by quickly engaging the active shooter with accurate gunfire. The Waco shooting took place in a crowded restaurant within a crowded shopping center with several businesses and restaurants full of innocent civilians. Police officers outside Twin Peaks could be expected to treat bikers firing shots in the parking lot as active shooters.
The affiliations of the bikers would obviously play a part in how the officers perceived the threat they presented. At least some of the bikers involved in the Waco shootout were “1%ers” or “outlaw bikers”. That’s what they call themselves, not just what police call them. Many wear 1% patches on their vests, in reference to the “99% of motorcycle riders are law-abiding citizens” comment made after the first riotous motorcycle rally in 1947; a 1% patch means they’re not law abiders. ...
(Excerpt) Read more at chrishernandezauthor.com ...
My understanding is that 9 dead:
8 Causaks
1 other
I immediately thought that the Banditos got in more range time than the Causaks. Dead were either head or center-of-mass hits.
Multiple news sources say that the dead died from wounds to various areas: head, neck, torso or combination depending on the victim.
So much for the headshots theory, the snipers theory, and the existence of video footage from local businesses also kind of hurts the conspiracy angle.
Whether this was underground investigation or a cop gone bad, it is not in the above discussion and has been on the news wire for several days.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3292230/posts
Waco Brawl: Busted Bikers Include Retired San Antonio Detective
NBC News ^ | Tracy Connor
Apparently whoever did the estimate had a little sharper pencil.
Or some Bandidos shot first. Two years ago a paroled felon walked into a coffee shop in Lakewood Washington and gunned down four fully armed police officers, because he had the element of surprise.
The cops are controlled by the Bandidos, who will eventually be released due to lack of evidence when the story dies down.
The one lone Bandido who was killed was an accident as a result of walking into the line of fire as one of the cops drew down on a Cossack.
Hey, my theory's just as good as anyone else's, right? Nothing too tin-foil about it, right?
Honestly, though, the more this rolls along, the more suspicious the whole thing is.
And for any who are still wondering, yes my theory is just me being sarcastic, and not what I actually think.
A well reasoned, calmly stated explanation for why it’s perfectly legal for cops to surround a brawl with snipers and just start shooting people dead, including CCL holders who might have pulled a gun to protect themselves from being attacked, because they “might be a threat to the general public.”
Hey, why not just throw out due process all together and be honest about it? We could save massive amounts of money, solve the debt problem, everything, if only we just had cops kill whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted, for the public good. Screw the criminal justice system, screw due process, screw it ALL - after all, cops KNOW who should be dead. So let’s just let them do their jobs as they see fit, and we’ll all be happier for it.
My over-arching observation as well...
LEO correct me if incorrect for current training...
LEO not trained to take headshots.
SWAT & Snipers are trained to take headshots.
My earlier take on this is that police were pre-deployed with intel of the ‘gathering’ and alleged threats of violence. Regardless what started it, another dichotomy between Waco & Baltimore is the police presence. Rather, lackthereof (visible deterrence) in Waco until bullets started flying.
Interesting on the ‘head shot’ report...
Then that wouldn’t be luck, now would it?
The polices are still relying on the aging belief that the peasantry isn't acquiring "No More Hesitation" targets with their likenesses on them...
Han Solo was there, he shot first.
After 63 years of peeing on my leg and assuring me that it was raining, the Government has earned my distrust.
It is up to them to prove that they are still not manufacturing BS for the masses to gobble up as the truth.
Quite reasonable, from the presently available evidence. I pretty much agree.
Subject to change, of course, as new information comes out.
“Well, that’s a different story then. Maybe you could get one lucky headshot, but not all of them.”
He specifically states that he saw Jordon shot by a Bandido. Jordon died from a ‘medium/large’ caliber shot to the head.
Boyette: Head shot, undefined caliber
M. Rodriguez: Head shot, medium caliber
J. Rodriguez: Head shot, medium caliber
NO small (.223 or similar) head shots designated in the autopsies.
“Or some Bandidos shot first. “
His interview follows the scenario very well.
1. The Cossacks came as a show of force knowing trouble was brewing.
2. The saw a bunch of cops and felt that the Bandidos wouldn’t ‘hit back’ since a lot of cops (by his words) ‘hand them covered’.
3. They dissed the Bandidos president.
4. Bandidos punched back.
5. More than 20 (from his interview) Cossacks came over the rail charging toward the Bandidos.
6. Bandios pulled their guns.
7. Eight Cossacks dead.
Per the autopsies:
Six of the dead had medium to large caliber bullets in them.
Two of the dead had small caliber bullets in them.
R. Kirshner(sp?) had both medium and small bullets removed from his body.
More and more this looks like most bikers were killed by other bikers.
” Rather, lackthereof (visible deterrence) in Waco until bullets started flying.”
In the interview, Luther specifically states that when he arrived he was glad for the strong police presence such that the police ‘had them covered’ if the Bandidos started any trouble.
“Not like Baltimore or Ferguson. “
From Luther’s interview he said the police said ‘if you move we will kill you’.
When you are outnumbered 200+ to 22 in a gunfight you have to be assertive ...
“It is up to them to prove that they are still not manufacturing BS for the masses to gobble up as the truth.”
Luther said the a bunch of Cossacks charged the Bandidos and then the Bandidos opened fire on the Cossacks.
Are you saying Luther is part of the ‘conspiracy’?
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