Desden in 2005.
fire-bombing that killed tens of thousands at the end of the Second World War
Don’t worry, there are a few FReepers who feel the same way about allied “war crimes”.
We should have firebombed (in lieu of nuking) offending middle eastern cities(including those in Egypt and Saudi) after 9/11. Never mind this smart bomb BS. Bomber Harris and LeMay were RIGHT!
There were no innocent civilians in WWII. The German people were enablers, not victims. The war, for all sides was existential. It was a last man standing fight.
My understanding of the politics of the raid was that Russia was taking massive casualties and Stalin was pressuring the allies to support him. The allies had run out of suitable targets and wanted to draw off any remaining German forces to relieve the Russian effort on Berlin. (Comments?)
Revisionist History.
The Nazis, much like the Soviets, were cunning and evil; however, the bombing missions that morphed into the fire-bombing of Dresden weren’t originated by the Luftwaffe. The destruction of a city and most of its civilian population was an inhumane act.
At the onset Germany bombed military targets exclusively as Hitler specifically prohibited the Luftwaffe from bombing any civilian targets.
In August of 1940, two aircraft were seperated from their formation and wound up lost while evading fighters over England. They jettisoned a negligible amount of bombs over London resulting in little damage.
Churchill directed the RAF to begin bombing raids over Berlin four times in a row. After the fourth raid, Germany warned the UK not to bomb Berlin for the fifth time or they would be forced to retaliate.
So Churchill ordered the fifth bombing and the Luftwaffe began the blitz.
What about the Luftwaffe bombing of London and Coventry during the Blitz, they started it...
Desden in 2005.
Our air forces were actually running out of targets by then. Also, our dear ‘allies’ the russkis were BEGGING US to hit Dresden’s RAIL JUNCTIONS—you know, the ones in THE CENTER OF THE TOWN.
We obliged.
End of story.
After all, it wasn’t like the NAZIs were strangers to the bombing of population centers or anything. They just weren’t quite as good at it—is all.
The Germans were the first to use poison gas in WWI [I know Because my Grandfather was gassed and died at an early age because of it] , the first to use VI and VII unguided missiles and would have used a nuke if they had been able to build one. They were not innocents.
The BBC, rewriting history at every turn. Disgusting, but so much like Big Media here. BBC, run by the Government.
“Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government center, and a key transportation center to the East. It is now none of those things.” - Sir Arthur Harris
This is something about which people in 2015 should really be able to take both sides at the same time.
The state of the world in February 1945 was a firestorm of violence and horror, in Japan, on Iwo Jima, in Manila, in France, Belgium, and Holland, in Germany, ESPECIALLY on the crumbling Eastern front, and of course in the SS camps as they shut down and tried to hide the evidence.
People, including heroic figures like Churchill, did things, planned things, ordered things that in a world not gone crazy never would have entered their minds.
Seen in this light, Dresden was a minor episode. Every bit as bad as they say now, of course, but part of a bigger catastrophe.
Read the wikipedia entry. Three facts emerge that are relevant and often overlooked:
1.) Joseph Goebbels exaggerated local Dresden police reports by at least an order of magnitude to enrage the sensibilities of the German people, and to a lesser extent to instill a sense of shame in the allies.
2.) The Russians repeated Goebbels lies because they served Soviet purposes, to arouse hatred of the Anglo-Americans among the German people in both the east and west and to harm their reputations world wide.
3.) Many if not most of the causalities were the result of poorly improvised basement air raid shelters. People were trapped in the basements of collapsing burning buildings. The ordnance dropped was mostly incendiaries, preceded by small explosives intended to break windows and roof tiles, providing ventilation and access for the incendiaries. The worst place to be in such a raid was in the basement of a large flammable building. The air raid shelters were more a placebo than protection. They were intended to make people feel the government was protecting them, at low cost.
While the Geneva Conventions outlaw indiscriminate killing of non-combatants or waging war on civilian populations, the protection is not absolute. Attacks on targets of military significance, like the rail yards in Dresden are permitted.
I find it hard to look at turn of the previous century photographs of Dresden, and not feel deep remorse that so much beauty was destroyed so senselessly. Still, I find, that the bulk of the senselessness resides with the Germans who welcomed the Great War and their children who welcomed the Second.
In the Pacific, Japan fought without quarter for opponents, both combatants and civilians. Japan killed prisoners of war, used civilians and POWs as biologic warfare guinea pigs, and massacred civilian populations. American troops were forced to take no prisoners because Japan's Bushido Code ordered its soldiers to fight to the death and made no provision for surrender. The last two 1945 battles of the Pacific War, Iwo Jima and Okinawa, produced more killed and wounded on the American side than all Pacific invasions before February 1945. Okinawa traumatized the USN for years after it was fought — more sailors were killed than wounded with 28 ships sunk and 368 damaged. Of 183,000 American troops committed, over 12,000 were killed, 38,000 wounded. Japanese forces casualties were 110,000 killed, 7,000 captured. Between 40,000 to 150,000 Okinawan civilians were killed from 1 April to 22 June 1945.
The Dresden bombing was vile. It was a plan that pushed thing more than a bit too far. That being said it’s not the pilots fault, it’s the folks that came up with the plan that was structured for maximum death and destruction that are to blame.