Police do not need probable cause to demand ID and if you are told to get out of the car and instead you remain in the vehicle and start reaching around for stuff, you are going to make somebody with a gun and a badge nervous. Review Chris Rock's "How not to get your @ss kicked by the police."
Many people apparently do not understand that LEOs have certain powers that regular civilians do not. When they give you an order, it is a lawful order and you are obligated to comply unless it is to do something that is clearly against the law.
Asking "why" implies that a lawful order is negotiable. It is not. You do what you're told; the police are not obligated to offer an explanation. If you do not obey a lawful order and demand an explanation instead, expect to be forced.
Be smart and stay alive.
Only a police officer has the legal authority to stop you when you are violating a traffic law, demand ID and initiate physical force for non-compliance. Citizens cannot do that to each other; only if life and limb are threatened can a citizen legally initiate physical force.
It is not optional for citizens to comply with lawful orders by the police. You are not asserting your "rights" by refusing to provide ID when demanded by a sworn officer. You are in fact in violation of the law when not cooperating -- and subject to physical force. And typically when people refuse to provide ID or claim they don't have one, officers can reasonably surmise that the reason is the subject has a warrant and/or something to hide. That, and rummaging around in a bag rather than getting out of the vehicle when ordered, is going to make a cop bust the window and tase you -- anywhere in the world.
Try to put away your personal biases, give the officer the benefit of the doubt and do your best to imagine the officer's perspective when you are being contacted by a LEO. Don't do and say things that would reasonably make them suspicious and escalate a minor traffic stop into something worse. A tiny bit of empathy might spare you being tased, cuffed and/or thrown to the ground.
The video that is being broadcast picks up when the officer is standing on the passengers side saying, "so you will not step out of the vehicle?" Then you can see the passenger bend his head down away from the cop. [You can't see very well, but that is likely when he was rummaging through a bag rather than complying with the order to open the door and get out.] Then the officer breaks the glass and tases the passenger.
We are not seeing the very beginning. Instead, the driver in the interview characterizes the initial contact as the officer was in a "bad mood from the start" rather than describing what was actually said and done prior to the start of the video. That makes me suspicious.
Given that the initial contact was about a seatbelt violation, and given that the occupants of the vehicle already were apparently disposed to think that lawful orders by LEOs are optional, IMO she was probably not cooperative and gave attitude to the cop when he initially approached her side of the car. If she did that, that was an unwise move that precipitated an unnecessary escalation.
I'll bet that she or the passenger were the ones who talked first. That part was not shown in the video. Neither she nor the passenger had their windows down when the video started. That alone indicates lack of cooperation.
Also, people who have violated the law will sometimes feign outrage with the hopes of disincentivizing the cop from proceeding further. [In some cases a true sociopath will become genuinely outraged when faced with limitations/consequences because they don't think they should be subject to rules that apply to everyone else.] In reality, becoming inordinately emotional about something minor like a seatbelt violation will make the officer suspicious.
Typically in a traffic stop, the officer will not even be on the passengers side of the vehicle. The fact that the video starts with the officer there indicates that the passenger gave the cop [through word and deed] a reason to move from the driver's to the passenger's side. I seriously doubt that the cop would have been there if the passenger kept his hands in plain view and his mouth shut.
If you want to avoid trouble with the police during a traffic stop -- and keep the encounter brief -- speak only when spoken to, keep your answers as short as possible, do what you're told promptly [don't give the impression that you are stalling] and keep your emotions to yourself.
If I had any trust in the cops desire to enforce the law against criminals, and if their only reason for being weren’t jacking up innocent civilians attempting to legally go about their day, then I would agree with you.
Sadly, my experience in 52 years is that the cops are revenuers for the welfare state, and the most well armed gang on the street.
They can take the next 52 years to change my mind by changing their behavior.
The officers told him to get out of the car. Too effing bad for him.
“If you want to avoid trouble with the police during a traffic stop — and keep the encounter brief — speak only when spoken to, keep your answers as short as possible, do what you’re told promptly [don’t give the impression that you are stalling] and keep your emotions to yourself.”
Good advice. Also, as you said earlier, keep your hands visible. Furthermore, don’t make any sudden movements. There was a poor chap shot in the South the other day who had exited his car in a gas station when a police officer asked for his license. He turned and reached into his car to retrieve his license (in compliance) when the cop drew and shot him. It seems prudent to explain to the officer what your are going to do next in order to comply with his requests/orders.
Remember when we had a Bill Of Rights in the USA?
Remember when one of those was the 4th Amendment?
I don’t know why the White chick is saying she’s a Black chick...
Here in MO a passenger would not have to show ID.
Some states do require a person to produce ID on the demand of a police officer - others don’t.
In America people are not required to carry ID - unless they are driving a car that requires a license.
But yeah, here in America it’s best to obey the Police otherwise they’ll give you a beat down while screaming for all to hear - “Stop resisting, Stop resisting” - and then go after any private citizen who filmed it telling them it’s illegal to film police.
PINAC
What’s the problem? The guy got out of the car.
;-)
Tommy Sotomayor is indeed intelligent and articulate. Salute, Mr Sotomayor.
Yours was a good post, with a lot of practical advice.
However, doing something that is less-than-smart should not be a capital offense.
“Try to put away your personal biases, give the officer the benefit of the doubt and do your best to imagine the officer’s perspective when you are being contacted by a LEO.”
****
That perspective is always “Here’s another citizen that will pay the ticket that will help pay my salary.”
The police arbitrarily enforce the law based upon ability to pay. My city is filled with illegals who drive unlicensed and uninsured with unregistered Meximobiles. The police won’t pull them over because there’s only paperwork and no money in it.
Then there are the women in Islamic garb with no license that weave back in forth between lanes while picking up their kids from school.
The Chinese immigrants who sit 3 car lengths back from the line at a stop light (no depth perception) and won’t go when it turns green.
My favorites are the Indian immigrants who never met a traffic law they would obey, including which side of the road to drive on. They’ve also never heard of using a turn signal or headlights after dark.
All of these are invisible to Mr. LEO who is looking for the gravy train to milk to pay for his @ss to sit in a cruiser. Public safety has nothing to do with it.
As for your “clearly against the law” standard for noncompliance with an LEO order, that’s absolute b.s. Too often, it’s a gray area where the facts are doctored after the fact to make the officer’s action look legal in the reports that are filed.
The best thing that could happen to restoring any trust in law enforcement would be mandatory video recording during all stops.
The second best thing would be to repeal all civil forfeiture laws where police departments get to keep assets confiscated for certain alleged offenses, sometimes when there isn’t even a conviction.
“Thank goodness Joseph took the video, because the video stands for itself that these officers engaged in excessive force,” attorney Dana Kurtz said in a news conference with the couple Tuesday.
...
If he really had a case, he’d try it in court rather than the media.
Give a cop an attitude, get 10 cops with attitude back!
More than ever you see Blacks refusing direction from law enforcement, getting all jiggy with attitude.
Then are surprised they are tased and/or get arrested.
Pennsylvania vs mimms. And Maryland vs Wilson. They have the ability to ask you to get out of the car. Maybe they should have just showed them their license
Not to mention that she tried to leave if not for the spike strip they deployed.
Also no verification that her mother was in the hospital and dying. This is actually a common excuse and although it may be true, the officer is under no obligation believe anything presented by the driver or passenger without verification.
Rules of the police state....
The watch Chris Rock's youtube video on “How not to get your ass kicked by the Police”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2plo4FOgIU
By my count, the people in the car violated at least 6 of the 8 basic common sense rules on how not to get your ass kicked by the police.
Jones lost his license two days before because he didn’t have insurance he has the ticket in a bag to show them but when he reached to grab it from the and not telling the cops what he was going after you can someone will draw bead on your dumb ass.
With this opening line, the author defines his contempt for the police.
If you start with that attitude, trouble will follow and it has nothing to do with blackness, just being a smart mouthed asshole will do just fine.
The cops will put up with some idiots for a while, but 13 minutes of telling the guy to get out of the car is pushing it.
Too bad he got tased, but he really deserved more than being tased.
I agree that right or wrong the best thing to do is what the cops tell you to do, even if they have no right to.
Having said that, this situation is just one more reason that I hate the cops.
So now it’s illegal to leave your house without your driver’s license just in case a cop demands ‘papers’?
If you don’t have it, you don’t have it. I’m unaware of any law that requires a citizen to carry ID with them every where they go.
And if it’s not illegal to walk/ride without ID, then how can it be legal for them to demand it?