Posted on 03/02/2014 3:59:10 PM PST by Errant
As the book of the Revelation comes to a close, we are left with some very important words. Keep his commandments, know his Torah, and make yourself ready to be the bride of the King. He is coming quickly. Join Michael Rood for the final episode in the series From Here to Eternity – Yeshua’s Famous Last Words: Amen, Emet, Truth.
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Therein lays the heart of the problem most people have with understanding scripture. Those who deny the different dispensations or ways God managed His dealings with man will never understand scripture as we have seen in these threads. It takes some incredible mental gymnastics and outright denial of some scriptures to try to explain many portions of scripture regardless of what type of theology they attempt.
Paul said we are in a dispensation of grace.
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
He said we are now made righteous without the law.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
There is no way to understand what that “dispensation of grace” is in relation to the statement by Jesus that not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law without understanding that once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in God will once again deal with Israel under the law until they accept Jesus as their Messiah at the end of the tribulation period.
There is plenty of evidence.
28 copies of the original Matthew for starters.
Hebraisms peppered throughout the gospels and epistles, translational inconsistencies in most of the epistles that prove within the Greek texts that they are translations from another language abound.
Only a biased commentator with an anti-God agenda could conclude otherwise.
Of course with your demonstrated Biblical illiteracy, this means nothing to you.
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Paul wrote to no one that wasn’t a native Hebrew speaker.
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I think that’s the point. True Holy Spirit filled Christians wouldn’t.
>> “ Satan worked that way in the Garden of Eden and hasn’t changed his ways since.” <<
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And cynical bear, his right hand man, follows him in lock step here.
Lies without limit, deliberate misquotes of other’s posts, clipped Bible references to turn their meaning on their head, where does it stop?
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It isn’t contradictory. And it doesn’t even seem contradictory if you understand the different dispensations and the way God manages His dealings with man. There is not “new thing” and “older thing”. There are just different things. During this “dispensation of grace” we are not under the laws that the Israelites are under. The “old thing” has not been done away with but it has been suspended until the “fullness of the Gentiles”. Once that happens God will once again deal with the Israelites as a nation under the “old thing” until they accept Jesus as their messiah.
Paul didn’t change Jesus’ words. He was taught and preached that the Israelites have been “set aside” with the “old thing” until the fullness of the Gentiles is realized.
“The Church” in the NT is the false creation of the catholic church.
Yeshua founded his congregation, not a human corporation, but the collection of those to whom he was “sent.”
He was sent only to lost sheep of the House of Israel.
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That's true...But Jesus had the authority to change what he said...And he did, with the apostle Paul for one example...
Structurally, no he did not, because the change defeats the primary proof of YHWH - That He IS in control, that he can predict, and therefore, no word ever will come back empty.
And secondarily, in order to prophesy and be heard by the people, what is being said cannot contradict Torah, as Torah (and the prophets) define a false prophet as one who transgresses the Torah (and the prophets). So if it is Yeshua's (or Paul's) intention to be heard, what is said cannot transgress the Torah. PERIOD.
[roamer_1:] Yeshua declares that His words will never pass away.
And his words did not pass away...We still have them...
No, it isn't that we have them. He means His words will not change. Just like the Torah will not pass away.
But that does not mean what was good for one group at one time is history stays the same all thru out history...
YES IT DOES mean one thing is good for ALL groups through all time.
God has been known to change course even in the Torah...
Not when it makes him out to be a liar, nor when it causes his prophets to speak untruly.
[roamer_1:] How then can Paul change his words? He can't (and in fact, he didn't). But if one is not cognizant of the fact that a disciple cannot change the words of his master, one can interpret Paul differently than what was intended.
You have to ignore too much scripture to come up with that conclusion... Paul received new instructions directly from the risen Savior...Paul did not consult the Torah...Paul did not consult the other apostles...He got it directly from Jesus Christ...
But Yeshua IS YHWH and YHWH does not change. So what he was given STILL cannot contradict what came before... And there is no private revelation... You should know that...
So if we can believe John wrote exactly what the Holy Spirit refreshed his memory with, then we certainly can accept and believe the scriptures that were acknowledged by Peter to be scripture written by Paul, based on what Paul wrote and not thru the eyes of the Torah...
You aren't getting what I am saying. I am saying that what you see in Paul's words isn't what he is saying. It can't be, or he is a false prophet.
John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[2] As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[3] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[6] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
[8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[10] And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
[13] And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
[25] O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
[26] And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Where are these copies kept, and to what year (approximately) are they dated?
Hebraisms peppered throughout the gospels and epistles,
Irrelevant. No one denies that the New Testament was written by Palestinian Jewish converts to Christianity.
translational inconsistencies in most of the epistles that prove within the Greek texts that they are translations from another language abound.
"Translational inconsistencies" assumes what you have yet to prove: that there was a Hebrew original New Testament for the translators to translate from.
>> “Why would you use as an authority for NT scriptures a man who does not believe Yeshua is Messiah?” <<
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Gordon himself does not consider himself an “authority” on the NT, but a scholar, and a beginning scholar at that.
But on the things which he has studied in depth, his work in unassailable, due to the completeness of his process.
There have never been any “great” NT scholars, just NT manipulators, mostly doubters, but I am confident that when he does set out to comment on the NT in detail, it will be the finest available.
And they rejected Him thereby offering a way for the Gentiles to be grafted in. The Gentiles are NOT Israel.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Israel was set aside and salvation has been offered to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous.
Take that veil from your mind and heart by turning to Christ and away from reading the law of Moses.
>> “ No one denies that the New Testament was written by Palestinian Jewish converts to Christianity.” <<
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A comment by an idiot!
They were not converts to anything. They each had lived their entire life in the very worship that Yeshua came to fulfill, not to create.
The only new thing Yeshua brought was the perfect acceptable sacrifice, fulfilling every covenant from Adam forward.
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Yeah, yeah. He understands the Old Testament so well He couldn’t see who the prophesied Messiah was.
>> “And they rejected Him thereby offering a way for the Gentiles to be grafted in” <<
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No, the Pharisaical Jews rejected him, not the House of Israel!
It was the Lost sheep of the House of Israel that were grafted back in. They are the gentiles.
I can assure those reading these posts that the spirit that inspires that vile name calling is NOT the Holy Spirit.
Ahhh, I see... Then your god IS a respecter of persons - Christians get it easy-peasy... And the bride of Yeshua (the very Torah incarnate) is without Torah (lawless). And the law that dispensationalists are under (oh, wait... they are under *no* law), the law that is written on their hearts (wait... I thought they were under *no law*) is different than the ETERNAL TORAH, by which the rest of the world and especially DEM JOOOS will be judged by. And MIGHTY YHWH who does not change, changes all the time. Sure... not contradictory in the least.
It would be really good for you to understand what 'the fullness of the Gentiles' is. It is in the Torah.
I would consider John 17 as Bible 404. We see in the High Priestly Prayer the linkage of how the Gospel would be preached through Jesus Christ’s apostles to us.
As in what exactly?
So you are comfortable to call someone who has not confessed Yeshua as Messiah and Lord being the "finest" commenter on NT texts?
I don’t know how one could read Romans 9-11 and come away with equating “Israel” with “Gentiles.” In fact both are clearly distinguished in the above chapters.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9&version=NKJV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010&version=NKJV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2011&version=NKJV
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