Posted on 03/02/2014 3:59:10 PM PST by Errant
As the book of the Revelation comes to a close, we are left with some very important words. Keep his commandments, know his Torah, and make yourself ready to be the bride of the King. He is coming quickly. Join Michael Rood for the final episode in the series From Here to Eternity – Yeshua’s Famous Last Words: Amen, Emet, Truth.
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
I would disagree. The Holy Spirit through Paul was most often addressing a Gentile or Greek speaking audience. In doing that he would have had to keep in mind that they would not understand the Hebrew “sense” but would rather try to communicate to them in something they understood.
I’m waiting for the list out of the 613 and your proof of sacrifice. It would be unwise for us to listen to you if you are simply a hypocrite telling us to do what you do not.
There are more than 613 - ALL of them. ALL of Torah.
and which you follow ”blameless”
As many as I can - 'blameless' is not a function of my doing.
and have sold all that you have and given it to the poor.
I am the poor. But yes, I give where I can.
Surely you are a "servant that does" and not a hypocrite aren't you?
I do the best I can - The hypocrite, I would assert, is the one who does nothing, yet claims to follow Messiah.
Which circumcision is it that you refer to?
Do you practice it along with the ritual purifications for childbirth?
Both of my sons are circumcised.
How do you do the sacrifices with no temple and no Levitical priesthood?
As I have said, over and again, one is not obliged to do what cannot be done.
But why do you not follow that in practice here?
Yeshua assailed them in Matthew 15 and 23
Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
[3] But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4] For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[5] But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[6] And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[7] Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
[10] And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
[15] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Matt.23
[1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
[3] All therefore whatsoever he bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
[4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
[5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
[6] And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
[7] And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[8] But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
[9] And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
[10] Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
[11] But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
[12] And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
[13] But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[14] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
[15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
[16] Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
[17] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[18] And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
[19] Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[20] Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
[21] And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
[22] And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
[23] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[24] Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[25] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[26] Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
[36] Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
[37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[38] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Rather than accept that the false law of the Pharisees is what was condemned, you purvey the lie willingly that his blessed loving Torah was what was meant.
Yes I will dish the word of God out, hopefully for your benefit, but what do you wish me to take? .
>> “Paul is a Hebrew, studied in the Word at the foot of Gamaliel. To strip the Hebrew sense of what he is saying is to lose a vast amount of context.”<<
.
>> “I would disagree. The Holy Spirit through Paul was most often addressing a Gentile or Greek speaking audience. In doing that he would have had to keep in mind that they would not understand the Hebrew “sense” but would rather try to communicate to them in something they understood.” <<
.
Again you willingly display your deep ignorance!
The only audience Paul addressed were the same audience that Yeshua sent his apostles unto: The lost sheep of The House of Israel.
Those are the gentiles he spoke and ministered to, and they spoke Hebrew, each and every one of them. You have difficulty accepting that the House of Israel were to the man gentiles, out of covenant for scores of generations, yet still doing their human best to follow what part of Torah that they could without the temple.
Read Matthew 10; he told them not to go to the Greeks or Samaritans, but to the lost sheep, and that is indeed what his obedient apostles did.
.
Weasel words!! Don’t give us the “as I can” excuse. It you break one you have broken them all.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.<<
Now since you have just admitted that you don’t keep them all you are obviously guilty of all of them. All three of you have told us that if sin is breaking the law so that would make you all sinners. Given the and your assertion that anyone not following all of the law then you must take this next verse literally also.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Now it seems to me that your form of “exegesis” causes you some problems. You’re “as I can” words counter your “not one jot or tittle” intent.
You condemn us for relying in Christ alone while preaching going back under the laws of Moses which require adherence to all the laws or be guilty of breaking them all. Then you have the audacity to tell us “I do the best I can”. Hypocrit.
Disagree all you like - But Paul was, by and large, preaching from synagogues. Every office of the church is found in synagogues. Every ritual of the church has it's Hebrew foundation. To deny the Hebrew sense is to do doctrinally the same thing as denying the Holy Days of YHWH in eschatology and the prophets - You are only getting half the message.
Just the understanding of the Hebrew sense of a marriage (which I know you know about), how it correlates to prophecy, and how it describes the rapture, should give one pause, and enough evidence to desire to seek out every other thing that can be derived from the 'Hebrew sense'. That understanding was hidden from the eyes of Christians for two thousand years because they instituted pagan marriage ceremonies. Thus the picture that YHWH intended was left wanting.
I’m waiting for the list out of the 613[...] [...] and your proof of sacrifice.
Oh, yet another new requirement - Just who is the Pharisee here - who is making demands of whom?
It would be unwise for us to listen to you if you are simply a hypocrite telling us to do what you do not.
No, it would be unwise to fail to listen to every word that comes from the mouth of YHWH.
>> “So post a list of the 613 laws from the Torah that we are to follow” <<
.
Reinforcing the lie by repeating the lie!
None of your 613 ordinances have the slightest bit to do with Torah, and 613 is really an incomplete count.
Your ordinances are the same Pharisaical crap that Yeshua denounced in Matthew 15, and 23, and Paul denounced in his epistles.
Satan is very crafty and persistent. He has trained you well at his knee.
.
...the vampire shielding his face from the cross.Do you have a scriptural reference to the effects of the cross on vampires?Scripture vaporizes empty grace dispys, just like the cross does to vampires.
Hint, they don't exist. (I would expect this from Scientologists, their founder was a science fiction writer. You watch too many movies and are mixing fantasy into your angry hateful posts.) Do werewolves also shy away from the cross? Does scripture "vaporize" them like it does to your mythical vampires? Do you have tooth marks on your neck?
Your nickname for God is Yah?
Now that's cool!
“Which circumcision is it that you refer to?” And if it’s the physical kind, why?
>>As I have said, over and again, one is not obliged to do what cannot be done.<<
You told me “not one jot or tittle”. Well, “not one jot or tittle” includes.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
I’m seeing a lot of double speak on your part.
I see no list of which of the 613 laws are still applicable today nor your confirmation of following that list without breaking any one of them. Until we see that list and your confirmation it would be unwise to listen or take advice from you as you would be a hypocrite.
Paul is writing to Gentiles, not Hebrews—the Galatians were descended from Gallic tribes that had invaded Greece 300 years earlier—and he is writing in their language using their definitions, which as an educated Pharisee and a Roman citizen, he certainly understood quite well.
You only argue in circles when you assert that Paul was writing to them from a strictly Hebraic paradigm.
I would point out that you correctly declared the redemption from the curse... not the Torah.
"[A]ll who rely on works of the law are under a curse" (Gal. 3:10). It is the Torah itself that brings the curse on men by its inability to save them from their own sin.
Now, as a man, I am not subject to my father's torah. But the curses for not following his wisdom still remain
Ladies and gentlemen, I present: The Amazing Self-Refuting Assertion.
Likewise our Father's Torah. How then can one claiming to be a child of YHWH pay no attention to the Torah of His House?
By paying attention to his Messiah, whom the Torah foreshadows. That is its purpose. You may revere the mere shadow, if you wish (Colossians 2:6-7); I will worship the One who stands in the light.
I don't see that - If Yeshua is our (and Paul's) example, and if Yeshua is the head, how then can the body do differently than the head?
If you think we should imitate everything Christ did in every respect, then, by all means, feel free to nail yourself up on a pole, atone for the sins of the world, and come back to life the next Sunday. Tell us how it turns out, OK?
>> “Paul is writing to Gentiles, not Hebrews—the Galatians were descended from Gallic tribes that had invaded Greece 300 years earlier” <<
.
Those ‘gentiles’ were gentile Hebrews, as can be solidly proven by their descendants inscriptions in Hebrew on rock surfaces in Ireland.
All of the congregations that Paul ministered to were the ones Yeshua sent his apostles to in Matthew 10.
There were no pagan congregations that received epistles.
.
Not at all.
Don’t give us the “as I can” excuse. It you break one you have broken them all.
Yep. As have you, and as has everyone (except One) from the beginning of time.
Now since you have just admitted that you don’t keep them all you are obviously guilty of all of them. All three of you have told us that if sin is breaking the law so that would make you all sinners.
Yep. As are you, and as is everyone (except One) from the beginning of time.
Now it seems to me that your form of “exegesis” causes you some problems. You’re “as I can” words counter your “not one jot or tittle” intent.
Nope. The curses were nailed to a tree. Ergo, I can try and try again.
You condemn us for relying in Christ alone while preaching going back under the laws of Moses which require adherence to all the laws or be guilty of breaking them all. Then you have the audacity to tell us “I do the best I can”. Hypocrit.
In that, if you stop and think about it, you deny the blood of Yeshua. What does it mean to 'go and sin no more'?
If Torah is the knowledge of sin, and sin is transgression of Torah... What is being said?
>> “I see no list of which of the 613 laws are still applicable today...” <<
.
Are you mentally retarded?
None of your Father’s Pharisaical mumbo jumbo has ever been “applicable” at any time.
All of Yeshua’s sheep follow Torah, every one of them.
.
Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Did I miss Paul’s name in there? Paul was sent to the Gentiles.
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
A dispensation (management) of grace was given to the Gentiles.
Ephesians 3: 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
The Gentiles were NOT the same body as the “lost sheep of Israel” as you would contend.
Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
The gospel of grace was given to the Gentiles. If you Israelite wannabe’s choose to be back under the law you had better not break even one or you have broken them all and are considered law breakers which you have said makes you a sinner. At that point his verse applies to you.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
No point in trying to reason with someone who believes Anglo-Israel fairy tales. Have a nice day!
You guys sure do dance around that law!! Can’t say which applies. Claim “you give it the best you can” which is contrary to scripture. Yet you have the audacity to condemn us for not following Torah. You are all Hypocrites.
>> “Did I miss Paul’s name in there? Paul was sent to the Gentiles.” <<
.
The specific gentiles to which Paul ministered were the lost sheep of the House of Israel, dispersed along the northern rim of the Mediterranean. Every congregation that Paul wrote to was a Hebrew Israelite colony.
If you read the beginnings of most of his epistles, he makes it clear that he is addressing Hebrews. The same can be said for Peter and James.
.
.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.