Posted on 10/20/2013 7:55:00 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Tomorrow is election day here in the U.S., though its an off-year, so its mostly local elections, bond votes, and the occasional state constitutional amendment. I plan on voting, and I vote every chance I get. In fact, its a bit strange that I havent already voted because Ive become a big fan of early voting in the last few years. (Notably, I had to bust out of the hospital to vote in the 2008 presidential primary, so I dont like to leave things until election day.)
Voting and science fiction almost inevitably brings up Robert Heinleins novel Starship Troopers. In that novel, the voting franchise was limited to veterans. A veteran was not necessarily someone who had been a soldier, but rather someone who had volunteered for a two-year stint in Federal Service. Whether a soldier or not, these service jobs were apparently all fairly hazardous. Only after retiring from federal service could you vote or hold public office. The book focuses mostly on the soldiers, so both fans and critics tend to look on the rule as only combat veterans get to vote, even though the book made it clear there were non-military paths.
The argument for this was that the responsibility of voting should be reserved for those who have demonstrated an understanding of individual sacrifice for the greater good, i.e. voting is not about getting something for myself but about getting something for everybody else. Whether or not Heinlein himself felt that the voting franchise should be so restricted, the book makes a fairly passionate argument for it.
Critics have often equated this with fascism or military dictatorship. The 1997 movie of the same name was perhaps the greatest critique along those lines as it showed the Terran leaders as being active-duty military officers wearing remarkably Nazi-like uniforms. The movie also varied from the book in enough other ways that I dont consider it to be a valid representation of Heinleins original argument on restricting the franchise to those who have already served. (The director has stated that he read only the first few chapters of the book.)
However, one thing that the movie did do was to bring up this argument again for a new generation. I was at a WorldCon in Baltimore (1998, I think), and I attended what was supposed to be a late night panel on Starship Troopers. Instead of a proper panel, it devolved into a roundtable discussion between all attendees. The arguments pro and con went round and round, complete with epitaphs of Nazi and commie and what have you.
I had not said much at all in that discussion, mostly just observing. (As a side note, I grow weary of the vitriol of many folks who are so fixed in their positions they are unwilling to entertain the notion that they might be wrong, and this discussion was filled with that kind of vitriol.) But eventually, someone turned to me and said, Youve been pretty quiet. Whats your take on it?
I replied, It seems to me that those of you arguing for the veteran-only vote are people who would be willing to make that sacrifice to earn the right to vote, while those of you arguing against it are people unwilling to make that sacrifice and just dont want to agree with a system that would deprive you of the right you currently enjoy.
I got two reactions. From those arguing for it, I got a chorus of F***ing A! From those arguing against it, silence.
I wasnt surprised by the response from the pro-Heinlein crowd, but I was disappointed in the response from the others. I had hoped that instead of arguing against the likely results of such a system (again, the Nazi or militarism arguments) they would offer an argument for the right to vote for those unwilling to give up two years for some level of community service, that those voters deserved the right to vote or that they offered a unique and valuable voice that would not come from those who had already served.
Personally, Im a little torn. I like to think that if I found myself in the world of Starship Troopers, I would have signed up and done my two years. However, in this world, I have never done so. I considered it strongly after high school, but pressure from my parents pushed me into college, and after that marriage, job, and kids kept me away from such a choice. I find that as the years go by, I regret that more and more. I still seriously consider making the switch to some kind of community service job in my later years, perhaps teaching. But I continue to vote now, without having made that choice.
Ive gotten into the habit of closing these with a question, so my question to you is this: If you did have to do two years of community or military service to earn the right to vote, would you do it, and what kind of service do you think you would do? Dont feel you have to restrict yourself to Heinleins choices of soldier or medical test subject. Instead, consider the many thankless jobs we have in todays society.
I accept your point. But you also understand that there are Social Security recipients that haven’t paid into the system? And that most everyone who reaches retirement age will eventually draw more out of the system in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits than they put into it?
Indeed.
Silly Founding Fathers. They thought that the written word had meaning!
The first time I heard that, it took me less than a minute to think of two ways it could be abused to the detriment of the Republic; one way leads to a landed elite making all the decisions (AKA feudalism), and the other to a dilution of the vote as bad as, possibly worse than, the way it is today.
No, thanks. BTW, I am a "holder of real property".
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
I’m shocked and disappointed no posting reference to YES’s great song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P60zM2sQ_4o
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
I thought Dina Meyer was hot in the shower scene........She has my vote.
I am now on Medicare and Social Security, after 49 years of contributing to them (albeit forced). I have earned Social Security and I am required to use Medicare.
Now, get back to counting the number of angles dancing on the head of your pin!
I believe there should be two basic, adult categories...Citizen and Taxpayer.
The citizen has earned the rights and priviledges of the title and franchise.
The Taxpayer purchases the basic liberties, sans franchise by paying taxes.
The citizen also pays taxes, but can vote and hold certain, key positions.
The third adult category, "Leech", may be on welfare, but rights are restricted, including the 2nd Ammendment.
Every citizen should be able to vote, veterans vote counts 5 times the citizen vote. Purple heart 10 times.
My tagline for a time was “No Representation without Taxation.”
Sounds like an idea. If in any particular year, the sum of taxes paid is not greater than the sum of benefits paid, then you don't get to vote that year.
“I accept your point. But you also understand that there are Social Security recipients that havent paid into the system? And that most everyone who reaches retirement age will eventually draw more out of the system in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits than they put into it?”
I grant you, some have not paid in. It’s relatively few. It is the spouse who never worked and draws 1/2 of what the working spouse was entitled to. It is the child of a deceased worker who was eligible and the benefit stops when they reach their 18th birthday.
As for collecting more than you paid in... For some that may be true just as it would be for life insurance. However I don’t think it’s the norm. If a person took 15% (7.5 employee and 7.5 from the employer) out of your paycheck during your working life and invested it, you would have millions for retirement when you got old. Do the math...
The only real problem with the system is that the money received was stolen and used for other things. The actuarial data was correct up front.
That’s interesting.
How does one earn citizenship? (Hopefully not by the king’s appointment).
Read the book!
Heh.
I read it in 1967. It’s been a while. ;-)
I’ll put it on the list.
Some states required that voters be members of a particular church.
Voting requirements changed over time.
The best analysis I have seen was by Mark Twain, “The Curious Republic of Gondour”:
The Curious Republic of Gondour by Mark Twain
(Samuel Clemens); published in 1870/1871 [1]
As soon as I had learned to speak the language a little, I became greatly interested in the people and the system of government.
I found that the nation had at first tried universal suffrage pure and simple, but had thrown that form aside because the result was not satisfactory. It had seemed to deliver all power into the hands of the ignorant and non-tax-paying classes; and of a necessity the responsible offices were filled from these classes also.
A remedy was sought. The people believed they had found it; not in the destruction of universal suffrage, but in the enlargement of it. It was an odd idea, and ingenious. You must understand, the constitution gave every man a vote; therefore that vote was a vested right, and could not be taken away. But the constitution did not say that certain individuals might not be given two votes, or ten! So an amendatory clause was inserted in a quiet way; a clause which authorised the enlargement of the suffrage in certain cases to be specified by statute. To offer to limit the suffrage might have made instant trouble; the offer to enlarge it had a pleasant aspect. But of course the newspapers soon began to suspect; and then out they came! It was found, however, that for onceand for the first time in the history of the republicproperty, character, and intellect were able to wield a political influence; for once, money, virtue, and intelligence took a vital and a united interest in a political question; for once these powers went to the primaries in strong force; for once the best men in the nation were put forward as candidates for that parliament whose business it should be to enlarge the suffrage. The weightiest half of the press quickly joined forces with the new movement, and left the other half to rail about the proposed destruction of the liberties of the bottom layer of society, the hitherto governing class of the community.
The victory was complete. The new law was framed and passed. Under it every citizen, howsoever poor or ignorant, possessed one vote, so universal suffrage still reigned; but if a man possessed a good common-school education and no money, he had two votes; a high-school education gave him four; if he had property like wise, to the value of three thousand sacos, he wielded one more vote; for every fifty thousand sacos a man added to his property, he was entitled to another vote; a university education entitled a man to nine votes, even though he owned no property. Therefore, learning being more prevalent and more easily acquired than riches, educated men became a wholesome check upon wealthy men, since they could outvote them. Learning goes usually with uprightness, broad views, and humanity; so the learned voters, possessing the balance of power, became the vigilant and efficient protectors of the great lower rank of society.
And now a curious thing developed itselfa sort of emulation, whose object was voting power! Whereas formerly a man was honored only according to the amount of money he possessed, his grandeur was measured now by the number of votes he wielded. A man with only one vote was conspicuously respectful to his neighbor who possessed three. And if he was a man above the common-place, he was as conspicuously energetic in his determination to acquire three for himself. This spirit of emulation invaded all ranks. Votes based upon capital were commonly called mortal votes, because they could be lost; those based upon learning were called immortal, because they were permanent, and because of their customarily imperishable character they were naturally more valued than the other sort....
http://www.abelard.org/iqedfran/gondour.php
So everyone is one ruling away from losing their rights.
Perhaps you recall that a man attempted to get a ruling that he was legally dead overturned. He failed despite standing in the court room petitioning the judge to rule that he was in fact alive, the judge would not.
If a legal status can be removed, then noone’s status is safe.
It worked from 1790 to 1850. But yes, in 1790 only 10% of the population of the US could vote (white males mostly).
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