Posted on 03/24/2012 3:38:33 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
As the investigation into the investigation of the killing of Trayvon Martin continues, new facts are beginning to surface, and the Fox affiliate in Tampa Bay found an anonymous witness who spoke to them in George Zimmerman‘s defense, saying he saw the man who was mostly the aggressor in the struggle fall on the grass, dead.
Tampa Bay’s Fox 13 reported that the witness, who agreed only to be identified as “John,” saw the struggle and it was his testimony the police used to let Zimmerman go free (John spoke to Fox 13′s Orlando Affiliate, Fox 35). His statements to the cops were instrumental because Sanford police say those screams you hear,” the anchor notes, are Zimmerman’s and not Martin’s. Says John: “When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”
The police report allegedly included notes of Zimmerman’s shirt being wet and grassy on the back, a sign of struggle. What it also includes, though, according to this report, is an initial assessment of the situation as “manslaughter and unnecessarily killing to prevent an unlawful act,” according to the first police officer on the scene.
This story is far from over as the story develops and Zimmerman’s side comes up to light. Given that the witness is anonymous and the only on-the-record supporters of Zimmerman’s are his parents, his neighbor, and his lawyer, however, a reasonable explanation for his behavior appears quite elusive. The station also compiled Zimmerman’s history of 911 calls, the police report from the night of Martin’s death, and a number of other handy documents to understand the situation.
The report via Fox 13 below:
(VIDEO AT LINK)
A minute ago you wouldn't even admit THIS exists.
Do you, so I know you have a basis for an assumption that the kid was up to no good?
The school authority only said that he wad in an unauthorized area. That’s all he said. While it could be something serious, like buying drugs, it could also be as simple as getting a basketball without permission. Until more is known, I’m inclined to give Martin the benefit of the doubt until there is reason to not give him that benefit.
Until somebody somebody can show otherwise, my running assumption is that the kid is an imperfect 17 year old and nothing more than that.
“....I”m trying to be objective......”
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That’s a GOOD thing, please keep it up.
Link?
>Link? Hell, I'm still looking for the where they found the skittles he bought.
According to this story (bold added):
Over the years, his scores of calls to police showed he pursued shoplifters and errant drivers with zeal, reporting pit bulls, potholes, children playing in the street, open garage doors and "suspicious" youths - usually black males - loitering in the street.He peppered his calls with jargon familiar to police. In one case, he chased a reckless driver while calling 911 - the driver later told police he was terrified that Zimmerman was going to attack him. In another case, Zimmerman tailed a supermarket shoplifter until a police officer successfully arrested the thief.
Possible prosecution witness?
There are numerous 7/11s within that distance of where he was staying.
There are other small shopping centers with snackbars, and i believe that's a Wal-MART even closer.
You can use a map to find these places.
I am interested in finding if any of the convenience store security cams caught sight of Martin ~ that gives us a precise time for when he starts back home.
That would also tell us where he went.
BTW, WalMart sells Skittles and Ice Tea.
Surely you would concede that because person A initiated a long chain of events doesn’t make him/her responsible for the ultimate outcome. Lots of things can happen during that chain to alter the outcome and therefore any culpability.
After several days of this stuff I'm getting demanding.
You’re assuming there was no little brother. I also gave you a reason why Martin was so intent on scrapping with Zimmerman.
The convenience store was not 4 miles. It was 0.7 miles or about 1,000 yards. Not an unreasonable distance.
While we argue, Al Sharpton’s looking at 0-4.
Funny, too, I didn’t hear the President speak about any of those.
That's sort of what "Neighborhood Watch" means, isn't it?
He’s made phone calls to the police over very minor things that should not warrant phone calls.
Well, that's really a matter of opinion, isn't it? In at least one call about a minor incident (an open garage door) Zimmerman explained to the operator that at his recent neighborhood watch training, they'd been told to report anything out of the ordinary. But, honestly, it seems to me that a guy who reports every minor thing to the police is sort of the opposite of a guy who wants to take the law into his own hands.
We also know that the complex had been broken into, mostly black males.
I don't think we know that it was mostly black males. We know that the neighborhood's residents were majority-minority, and about 20% black. And we know police had been called to the neighborhood 402 times in the past year, investigating nine burglaries, eight thefts and one prior shooting.
And we also know that George told the operator he wasn’t going to let this particular youth get away.
He said no such thing. He said "these assholes always get away."
His mindset suggests a reactionary one, where he’d be prone to overreact.
After saying "okay" when the operator suggested "we don't need you to (follow)" he stayed on the phone for almost two more minutes, during which he said he could no longer see Martin and did not know where "this kid" went. He declined to say his own address out loud because he was concerned Martin might still be close by and overhear him.
Those are all facts. What you conclude about his mindset is your business, but it ought to be based on facts.
Trayvon, was not a troublemaker by all reported accounts. He appears to be a normal 17 year old. He was in an unfamiliar territory, out to get some Skittles. It doesn’t appear to be that Trayvon doesn’t make it a habit to beat people half to death. It’s not who the kid is.
And that's the real tragedy, because the people who have spoken out about Zimmerman say he was a good guy who cared about his neighbors. A co-worker described him as "as an outgoing and friendly man" and expressed shock at the stories about the shooting. See, nobody who knows either of them can believe this happened. Yet it did.
I don't know who started the fight. Once the two came face to face, I really wish they had just told each other who they were and why they were there. But they pretty obviously didn't.
The claim is the "stand your ground' law allows you to use lethal force in self-defense, and to not be prosecuted for the killing.
AT The same time the same law creates some standards to be met first. YOU can easily lose your right to claim that law as a defense against prosecution ~ e.g. by using lethal force when there is no evidence that you feared for your life.
>>Interestingly, though shot a mere block from his home, he was apparently unidentified for three days in the morgue, as his parents did not report him missing.
OK, that’s a new one on me, and I thought I’d been following this pretty closely for the last 4-5 days.
WHAT. THE. HECK!?
Any media, or better yet, official sources for that?
How old is that picture?
Were you the one who started the deleted thread?
I have no illusions about the two principals: it was a wannabe cop meeting a wannabe gangsta. Am I wrong?
I don’t know where Vini got 4 miles. The distance I read was about 1,000 yards or 0.7 miles.
I want the address of the 7/11 where you can obtain candy cane! Thanks in advance Veni (if that is your real name.) (I promise to keep it a secret.)
“.......Until somebody somebody can show otherwise, my running assumption is that the kid is an imperfect 17 year old and nothing more than that.”
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My running assumption until some TRUE information comes out is that neither I nor anyone else on this thread knows whether Martin is an Angel, a Devil or something in between. Anything beyond that is pure conjecture or guessing or, most likely, projecting what the person WANTS TO BELIEVE.
The information available to us is clearly INSUFFICIENT to arrive at a final conclusion as to whether this was a self defense killing or something else. There seems to be a LOT of jumping to conclusions and demonizing going on—both as to Zimmerman and, to a much lesser extent (I’d hope you’re honest enough to at least admit that disparity), to Martin.
I well remember the agenda driven Duke Lacrosse case presumption of GUILT and I hope we don’t see the same thing here.
He didn't go to WalMart. He went to 7/11. There has been NO deviation from that storyline until you speculated on it just now. There has been a mention to Upsala Grocery (which I believe I was the first to mention) but it closes early. It's afraid of getting robbed. Even the nearby mall is closed at 7pm on a Sunday. There is a Hooters but I don't think they serve Skittles.
Map out the 7/11s. You'll find two within about the same distance of a few miles. Yes, there are more but then it would be even more curious as to why he'd walk to one that's even further away
I drive by the front gate of this community several times a month. I know the area fairly well.
I don't support Zimmerman OR what he did. I do support the notion that the police must have probable cause to conclude he violated a specific law before they arrest him. Barring some unseen evidence, I just don't see probable cause here.
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