Posted on 03/24/2012 8:47:14 AM PDT by Travis McGee
(Snip) The death weapon was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET. Both men, according to initial reports, were “squeaky clean” in terms of their background. We now know, meh, not so much. There were allegations of domestic abuse against Zimmerman, and a conviction for resisting arrest, in his past. Young Mr. Martin was in the complex in the first place so his dad could straighten him out after being kicked out of school for a week…for what, we don’t know. Pundits who don’t all seem to understand the concept are tying this shooting in to Florida’s Stand Your Ground law much more than they should. There is conflicting evidence/testimony as to whether Martin approached Zimmerman or vice versa in the penultimate moments before the physical fight that led to the fatal shot. There is, in short, not yet enough information for any of us outside the investigation to formulate a solid opinion.
(Excerpt) Read more at backwoodshome.com ...
I sometimes top mine up and sometimes don’t. It is probably better for the mag not to keep it 100% loaded but I figure at my age, my Grandchildren can worry about spring tension.
I have a couple of Argentine made mags for the Browning Hi-Power and they have such a heavy spring that I purposely keep them topped up hoping to loosen that spring tension. So far it hasn’t worked.
Come on, how long does it take to chamber a round? The moment I hear something and I go to get out of bed, the round is chambered.
If I am walking around my property, the round is chambered.
My question with the Zimmerman situation - if he really had a full mag - is why have the round in the chamber and a full mag? Wouldn’t, under most situations, you have one less round in the mag?
To each his own. I always handle my weapons like they have a chambered round, but I don’t keep one in the chamber. It is my preference. When I have a reason to think I might have to shoot, I chamber. Hopefully, I will never get in a gunslinger street fight like in the old west. Even chambered, I doubt I would have a chance.
This reminds me of why I bought a revolver recently. It can be fired through a pocket more than once (no hammer). Good enough for close range. I can put the pocket out (it'll likely at least be smoldering) after I have handled any more serious threat.
You just can't do that with a semi-auto without expecting a jam, either from failure to cycle due to interference from the material or the spent cartridge case failing to eject fully.
Was Zimmerman wearing a jacket? (Night time and chilly), and was the pistol in the pocket instead of a more conventional holster?
Still too little info.
If you're in the middle of being physically attacked, way too long. And, if you're being attacked, you may not have both hands free to even do it.
Use of force scenarios aren't all cozy like on TV, where the homeowner wakes to a noise in the kitchen. Sometimes people wake up to a hand closing around their neck.
I agree.
Just like in the movies...
That’s why Mas Ayoob is THE ‘go to guy’ for SD court cases.
It just occured to me that he must have written something about the Zimmerman/Trayvon case.
I keep a second clip, but hopefully I will never need the first one.
I understand where a lot of you are coming from, but it isn’t me. I am not going to store or even carry with a round chambered in an automatic. Revolvers with cock-able hammer are ok for me. As for chambered automatics, I just don’t trust mechanical devises that much.
The point is, if you want to maximize safety and you deem your environment to be low enough threat, then keep at it.
My point was only that those who carry chambered are anything but wrong.
Lots of speculation here, without much data. The fact is that we don’t know what we don’t know about this case.
It sounds as though the Sanford police may have mishandled the investigation, but we don’t know.
About the only thing we seem to know for sure is that Treyvon was unarmed and Al Sharpton is doing what he does best - rabble rousing.
Frankly, I would like to see a full, complete and unbiased investigation so that ALL of the facts come out. Either way, both Zimmerman and Treyvon deserve their day in court.
But, all of this speculation isn’t it.
I understand what you mean, but hopefully I would have some warning from my alarm system. With small kids, there is no way I am leaving a round in the chamber. I am not going to put a stupid trigger lock on either.
My kids are trained not to touch weapons without an adult or their older brother, but I was a kid once and boys are boys.
Right now, they would have some difficulty chambering. Hopefully, with training they will always be safe and respectful with these tools.
Good luck with all that.
I heard the defendent’s lawyer speaking, via a phone somewhere, in an interview on BBC America this morning.
He was saying that at this time he does not see “Florida’s Stand Your Ground law” as an area he is going in his client’s defense, but rather “self defense” is.
Wheather or not the story from Backwoods Home Magazine is correct or not - concerning some things known about the gun - it would jibe with the direction - self defense - the defendent’s lawyer appears headed.
Makes perfect sense since Stand Your Ground doesn’t apply to someone who is pinned to the ground and couldn’t retreat anyway.
I heard he looked exactly like Mahlia Obama, if she was a guy.
For those interested in the available factual information, much of it is here. The local authorities have done a decent job of making the evidence in this case available to the public, unlike most of the media, which seems primarily interested in whipping up an enraged mob rather than assembling and reporting the facts.
http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf
In addition to that, here are a couple of news reports from local stations before this became a racialist cause celebe. They seem much better than anything we are seeing now. One includes the report from the guy who saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman pummeling him.
http://www.wesh.com/r-video/30696935/detail.html
The news reports coming out now seem designed primarily to whip up a racialist frenzy, rather than throw light on the events.
Now, there isn’t “a report that Zimmerman had actually quit following Martin and was returning to his vehicle” - there is the statement of Zimmerman to the 911 operator as he is walking around the complex that he had lost sight of Martin. Listen to the first 911 call at the first link.
And you are a pompous idiot. I don't have the greatest memory in the world for every tiny minutia of gun worship like you do, but I have had the safety course. You have got the be the biggest jerk I have ever run into in my many many years on this board. I had a respectable disagreement with 101 and we didn't resort to calling each other liars and other insults. I even learned a thing or two, but your approach was appalling.
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