Are libertarians part of the conservative movement? An interview with Jonah Goldberg

American Enterprise Institute ^ | Feburary 10, 2012 | AEI Podcast

[Superstu321]

Jonah Goldberg makes the case that Libertarians are a essential to the Republican party and that conservatives and libertarians aren't that different.

[Ohioan]

What foolishness. "Dopers who want to shoot up legally," are not likely to have a coherent political philosophy--either here or in a country like the Netherlands, where they can "shoot up legally."

That kind of statement is equivalent to suggesting that there are two kinds of "Statists" or "modern Liberals" or Socialists. Those who actually believe in Government as a personal problem solver & parasites lining up to have someone else support them.

The Founding Fathers--with all their individual differences--were virtually to a man what would be called "libertarian," even Hamilton, if you read what he had to say in the Federalist Papers. And yet, they basically defined what we would call "Conservatism." today. They had a coherent understanding of how society worked--that by maximizing individual responsibility you put people on their mettle to be the best they could be; the most productive, the best in solving their own problems; the best neighbors, citizens, etc.. That, to be sure, is the essence of a libertarian philosophy; does it vary in any material sense from what we Conservatives adhere to?

I have no idea where the silly notion that the issue is over drugs! No true Conservative or libertarian, would deny the right of a State--as opposed to the Federal Government--to exercise the Police Power, the power over the health, safety & morals of its people. Those are issues for each State; but how we handle them in our respective States, is a legitimate issue among us. It is not however, the defining issue in regard to getting Obama, Pelosi & Reid, out of a position to usurp power; out of a position to continue to increase the scope of Government at the Federal level.

William Flax

[TheBigIf]

I am not going to get into a case by case argument as to whether a certain behavior is harmful or not. I made a point on the overall difference in ideolgy of libertarians versus conservatives.

Libertarians follow the Wiccan rede : “Do As tHou Wilt but Harm None” and feel as if this Wiccan rede is a apart of the Constitution. Alexister Crowley (the Beast) could easily serve as the Founder of the libertarian movement and was very libertine by nature but libertarianism really is more the legacy of the old school Confederate democrats who used to go out into woods and burn crosses and wear white hoods and robes and were led by types like the Grand Wizar and Cyclops, etc…

It is no coincidence that most libertarians dislike the religious right the same way that the progressives do. The KKK hated the religious right as well (very anti-Catholic) and the current libertarian party was formed even to join with the Marxists in protests against America during the Viet Nam war. Of course they also share in the drug culture of the Marxists as well.

[Responsibility2nd]

If you can’t tell the difference between a Liberal and a libertarian it might not be a good idea to broadcast it. You know what they say “It’s better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it”.

 

 

I take this as a flattering compliment coming from a Ron Paul supporter.

 

And don't try to deny that insult either. Your post nearly screams out the fact that you're a liberaltarian who is weak on social and foreign policy issues.

 

I say again - with pride - See Tagline.
 

[Texan5]

Military spousal benefits as well-but all I had to furnish for that was my marriage certificate signed by the priest and 2 witnesses-that can be taken by SS as well, I’m sure. And if they want to honor civil contracts for SS, why not between homosexuals, multiple spouses, etc ? Some wily lawyer will find a way to see to it that SS benefits are provided to all surviving spouses-and that is the slippery slope of having marriage be a “civil” matter.

[Persevero]

“Because you dont want libertarians on your team.”

I SAID we should cooperate with them on economic issues. See my first post on this thread.

And here is the size of government I want:

one that handles economics in a basically Libertarian way, except for bigger funding of the military and money to enforce laws against crimes Libertarians think are freedoms;

one which maintains military bases and embassies in strategic places around the world, keeps a vigorous presence in every country, and handles enemy states without apology;

and one that enforces public morality in a way that protects the most vulnerable of our citizens. This would include enforcing laws against porn, prostitution, public broadcast profanity, abortion, human trafficking, public nudity, bestiality, sodomy, bigamy, statutory rape, polygamy, drug abuse, and drug trafficking.

[PapaBear3625]

the small l libertarians are the true liberty strict constitutionalists...we are closer to conservatives than the mainstream republicans are..

I consider myself a small-l libertarian. My philosophy is that people should be free to do as they please as long as they do not hurt anyone (other than themselves) or impose a cost on me.

[Durus]

Calling me a Ron Paul supporter is an obvious lie.

I'm a strict constitutionalist. Do you have a problem with the constitution?

[TheBigIf]

You said:
I consider myself a small-l libertarian. My philosophy is that “people should be free to do as they please as long as they do not hurt anyone” (other than themselves) or impose a cost on me.

The Wiccan rede : “Do As Thou Wilt But Harm None”

Anyone will notice that for every libertarian (and many progressives and Marxists today) this statement is paramount to all of their political philosophy. It is aligned with the Marxist philosophy of ‘Relative Morality’ and seeks to make everyone “Equal” to the extent that even all forms of morality are equal. Do whatever feels good is what they want to preach to our children.

This is the essence of the disease that is harming our children ever since the radical counter culture took root here in America.

[Responsibility2nd]

I’m a strict constitutionalist. Do you have a problem with the constitution?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“strict constitutionalist” is lib speak for being a Ron Paul supporting, pro-dope, anti-Israeli, anti-military, storm fronter.

Yes, I have a problem with the Constitution. I have a problem with it being used like toilet paper by liberals who hide behind the Constitution as they promote their pro-choice agendas.

Understand?

Good. Now here’s your chance to call me a nanny stater or an Evangelical do-gooder, or whatever else you want.

[Wissa]

libertarianism really is more the legacy of the old school Confederate democrats who used to go out into woods and burn crosses and wear white hoods and robes and were led by types like the Grand Wizar and Cyclops, etc…

The KKK was strongly in support of Prohibition. No matter how hard I try, I can't wrap my mind around the thought of that being a libertarian position.

[Dead Corpse]

Not “my” dope. But thanks for continuing to provide me with brainless dummies to beat on.

[Dead Corpse]

Rousseau. But the correct quote is "but he is everywhere in chains". This was not a lament that we needed more government, but a lament that our governments continue to enslave us.

""Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the spot of every wind. With such persons, gullability, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason and the mind becomes a wreck." - Letter to James Smith, December 8, 1822"

You should know who wrote that one. If not, you have more reading to do...

[TheBigIf]

Your very right to point that out. In almost every way both the KKK and the progressive movement are anti-libertarian and yet both of these factions were closely aligned with the Confederate democrats. Go figure. But you still see exactly the same thing today with libertarians who align themselves with the progressives and militant (terrorist) Marxist groups all of the time.

To be precise my point was that the Confederate democrats could be considered the Founders of the libertarian ideology and that is simply just my opinion. The KKK for obvious reasons (terrorism) would not be considered libertarian. But neither would the progressives be considered libertarian and yet the Confederate factions in the South cheered them and voted them to power.

I used to counter protest against groups like International A.N.S.W.E.R and I was amazed how many times people among their ranks would claim to be libertarians.

The reason I brought up the Marxist and KKK connections is because their is a common anti-religion (anti-traditional morality) bond that is shared by the KKK, marxists, libertarians and progressives.

[TheOldLady]

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[Dead Corpse]

Agreed. Particularly on that last part. A State should honor the various Religions that make up it’s Citizenry’s faith. Inclusive, not exclusive.

No religion should ever be forced to honor a same-sex “marriage” nor be forced to provide abortion services against their creeds edicts.

I grew up Lutheran and my kids were baptized in a Methodist church... Works for me. I wouldn’t have the hubris to say my neighbor must follow my lead at the barrel of a government gun...

[Raider Sam]

You said we should cooperate them, then said 2/3 of their philosophy is inhuman, and I really dont see how doing that will get them to the table.

Half of those morality issues dont harm people who arent interested in being harmed, so why does the government need to enforce that morality?

[Dead Corpse]

No property taxes, but maintenance/service fees for “public” services like fire/police/water/sewer. Privately run, competition keeps things in line.

And yes, it’s possible to run “public” services as private companies. Check Cato and Reason for applicable articles..

[Dead Corpse]

These are the same arguments, and pejoratives, that come up every time this topic does. Since 1999 for me...

Reasonable people are... well... reasonable. They can agree to disagree and go their separate ways.

The NIMBY's and Nanny's are easy to spot as they devolve the quickest into name calling and making inflammatory statements.

[Texan5]

Is it just me, or are some on this thread practically on a witch hunt? Calling people Wiccans, KKK, Marxists, dopers etc-I don’t see any libertarians espousing any sort of depravity for children, but I do see some who are anti-libertarian acting like nannies, as long as it is their view being promoted as law.

[JustSayNoToNannies]

They become anti-liberty once they start telling me that I have no right to have repreesntation on making law in response to limiting behavior that I believe to be harmful to me or my family. [...]
your dope is still illegal. Thanks for the incentive though to vote once again to make your lifestyle illegal.

How is his drug use harmful to your or your family?

I am not going to get into a case by case argument as to whether a certain behavior is harmful or not.

I only asked about a single case, which YOU brought up.

I made a point on the overall difference in ideolgy of libertarians versus conservatives.

And you had no response to my reply in post #30:

I have the right to represntation on issues whereas I feel the behavior of others is harmful to myself or my family.

If "what is harmful" is whatever a majority votes to be so, then those who claim to be "harmed" by you not giving them your money have won the day.

Many libertarians act as if they know better and want to deny you this right claiming that you need to have some sort of absolute proof that someones actions are directly harmful annd that all arguments that use a causation approach to showing the harm are not allowed to be used.

Libertarians are all for causation arguments - they just note that some such arguments are unfounded, for example, "some drug users harm others, therefore all drug use harms others."