Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat

Sven Kullander On Rossi And eCat
admin on November 23, 2011 — 6 Comments

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1409
The following was posted on the Facebook Energy Catalyzer page. It comes from Hampus Ericsson who attended Sven Kullander’s Örebro talk today. Kullander has been a key player in gaining Rossi credibility in the past few months. Taken in the sweep, it appears to me that he believes in Rossi and his claims but reserves the right to be wrong until definitive independent tests drive the nail home. His comment about AR’s prickly response to anyone who distrusts him is interesting. This flies counter to his public stance on genuine scepticism. No scientist should work completely on trust. No scientist will truly trust him/herself. Perhaps the comment relates to personal attacks on his integrity. That I would understand. He is right to be angry at those type of attacks.

I couldn’t stay for all of it because I have a train to catch. The lecture was good. He started by going I’ve all different types of nuclear power. And then he talked about hot fusion and when that might be functional.

Then the good par came, he talked about all the different test that have been made of Rossi’s ecat( basically read the NyTeknik reports.

Then he talked about his own test, he said that it proved that heat was made but he couldn’t say how, and he dont believe it’s cold fusion because that impossible by today’s science. But it could only be explained by cold fusion happening. He was very confused .

He also said that Rossi is definitely not a fraud and that his friend Focardi and Levi is absolutely not frauds. They are his friends and he trust them.
Rossi on the other had he said to be a black box.
He said that NASA had contacted him and asked about rossis ecat. So NASA was the first American customer that bailed. Apparently they wanted to know how it worked and Rossi wanted to keep the secret for himself.

Sven kullander did not know who the final costumer is.

He also said that Rossi can be a little bit angry at people who don’t trust him. That’s why Sven have kept on Rossi god side and never told him that it don’t work.

Sven said that he have asked Rossi if Uppsala university can independently test the device, with the demand that all information will be reveled to the public. If Rossi says no to this Uppsala will not test the device.

One of the most interesting thins was that Sven kullander sad that Focardi and Levi are both excellent professor that he believe a 100% in, Rossi on the other hand is a little bit of a black box. He said that there are two black boxes in this history, Rossi and he ecat.

He also said that his colleague Roland Peterson (think that was his name) is very positive on the ecat.

Sven also showed the test of the nickel fuel and the copper nickel that is left after the reaction. They will come out with a full article on this when all the testing is done. But the first test show copper in the waste

[With thanks to Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]

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More On The Sven Kullander eCat Talk
admin on November 24, 2011 — 11 Comments

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1416&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ecatnews%2FAdFD+%28+%C2%BB+eCatNews+-+Rossi%E2%80%99s+Cold+Fusion+2.0%29

The pedigree of Sven Kullander and Hanno Essen is interesting. From Wikipedia:
Professor Kullander is professor emeritus of High Energy Physics at Uppsala University. Kullander received his doctorate from Uppsala University in 1971. Since 1990, Kullander has been a member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences and chairman of its Energy Committee
Hanno Essén is an associate professor of theoretical physics and a lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society
Their role in the Andrea Rossi affair began when they expressed an interest in the eCat and then attended a Bologna demo. During that demo, the eCat seemed to produce around 5kW of heat from a small sealed vessel (50 ccm) containing Hydrogen and Nickel. They were allowed to check for hidden conduits and examine the instruments and various elements of the system. They were not allowed access to the core but since it was small and the claimed energy large, it was reasonable to treat the device as a black box to determine its utility.

In many of the arguments posed by reasonable and unreasonable sceptics alike, doubt is often cast on those attending these events. Various inventions are created to explain why otherwise intelligent people could be so stupid as to fall for Rossi’s tricks. Senility, stupidity, human error, dishonesty, fraud and gullibility are all wheeled out in turn. If you have been there and leave believing the claim might be real, there has to be something wrong – you are either in on the scam or too dumb to see it.

No one can accuse Kullander or Essen of not being independent. How often have we heard that a scammer would never let an independent and qualified scientist near their scamming machine? And yet, here we have two physicists, both active and experienced, one the chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences’ (of Nobel fame) Energy Committee and the other the former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics’ Society and both allowed dangerous and intimate access to a working eCat.

Both scientists are well aware that what they saw and measured does not constitute proof and neither can say with certainty that Rossi’s claims are true. They would be foolish to do so. Indeed both admit that they could not check everything and although they do not suspect fraud, they have to leave that door open as a small possibility.

They published a travel report detailing the demo and results and expressing their belief that (assuming no fraud) the eCat was producing so much energy that it had to be nuclear in origin.

For many months, both scientists remained out of the light and some hard sceptics wondered if they were distancing themselves from Rossi and that report – now embarrassed that they had ever been involved. However, recently Kullander has begun to publicly reveal his current thinking and yesterday gave a talk (Swedish) to an audience in Örebro. Today, Ny Teknik, the Swedish magazine responsible for extensive reporting throughout the year has published a pdf of that talk. Together with an audio recording by a member of the audience (again, in Swedish) and a variety of interpretations from around the Net, we begin to get a good idea of Kullander’s current view of Rossi and the eCat. It is nuanced and intelligent and does not conform to that expected of the term ‘Believer’.

To be fair, I doubt a reasonable sceptic would place that moniker on him as the scientist clearly leaves room for his conclusions to be wrong. That said, most of us have read others who are less supportive than Kullander being labeled as a believer as though the tag could colour you gullible.

The following has been Googleized from a report by Bertil Nilsson on a Swedish forum discussing Kullander’s talk (here is the audio):
Biggest “scoop” is well that, according to Rossi, it works without a catalyst. It can be measured net energy even with only nickel and hydrogen. He says that as a reason why his patent to go through. But it opens the course for the reproduction of this, we have many who can kalimoetri precision now after all the thinking.

Kullander is deeply skeptical of the proton capture of nickel, believes that there are other possibilities. He outlined a number of them, but I must return later. I can not enough to sum up the piece. He was puzzled by the presence of natural copper in the ash, but a detailed isotopic analysis is expected to be ready for Christmas
Kullander told further about their personal experiences of a large number of people at the University of Bologna has been more or less concerned about the ECAT, the most active of course Focardi and Levi. He feels these people knowledgeable and up to serious, from the president down. Kullander feel even Rossi as sincere and serious and a very knowledgeable and skilled engineer but somewhat discursive reasoning when entering the field of physics. He also talked about discussions he had with Levi for a large number of tests that are not described but conducted by Levi, who personally knows the ECAT works.

Kullander believes that Rossi for their own sake must be sure to get an independent verification of heat output and that he was not to be overtaken should ally itself with some great players, like Siemens or ABB. One problem here may be that Rossi has a deep personal relationship with their cats, as he usually describe them. Kullander has offered Rossi to test and verify an ECAT in Uppsala in collaboration with the University of Bologna. Discussions on this are ongoing. Kullander preclude an agreement whereby secrecy around that they have an ECAT in place or that the results may not be shown publicly.

The above is in addition to yesterday’s report which I repeat here:
I couldn’t stay for all of it because I have a train to catch. The lecture was good. He started by going I’ve all different types of nuclear power. And then he talked about hot fusion and when that might be functional.

Then the good par came, he talked about all the different test that have been made of Rossi’s ecat( basically read the NyTeknik reports.

Then he talked about his own test, he said that it proved that heat was made but he couldn’t say how, and he dont believe it’s cold fusion because that impossible by today’s science. But it could only be explained by cold fusion happening. He was very confused .

He also said that Rossi is definitely not a fraud and that his friend Focardi and Levi is absolutely not frauds. They are his friends and he trust them.
Rossi on the other had he said to be a black box.
He said that NASA had contacted him and asked about rossis ecat. So NASA was the first American customer that bailed. Apparently they wanted to know how it worked and Rossi wanted to keep the secret for himself.

Sven kullander did not know who the final costumer is.

He also said that Rossi can be a little bit angry at people who don’t trust him. That’s why Sven have kept on Rossi god side and never told him that it don’t work.

Sven said that he have asked Rossi if Uppsala university can independently test the device, with the demand that all information will be reveled to the public. If Rossi says no to this Uppsala will not test the device.

One of the most interesting thins was that Sven kullander sad that Focardi and Levi are both excellent professor that he believe a 100% in, Rossi on the other hand is a little bit of a black box. He said that there are two black boxes in this history, Rossi and he ecat.

He also said that his colleague Roland Peterson (think that was his name) is very positive on the ecat.

Sven also showed the test of the nickel fuel and the copper nickel that is left after the reaction. They will come out with a full article on this when all the testing is done. But the first test show copper in the waste.

[With thanks to Tom in the eCatNews.com comments section and Akira Shirakawa on Vortex]

Safety ~ some competitive bicyclists are concerned with such matters.

BTW, I remember the days BEFORE TITANIUM ~ back when Steve Tesich was still a bicycle race fan and not a successful screenwriter (He's the guy who did Breaking Away about our good friend Dave Blaze who sang Italian arias while racing).

They were talking about how great it was going to be to get lithium bike parts ~ even frames (then about $2000 ) which would allow them to beef up the braking systems.

It cost less than $2000 for room, board and tuition at a major state university back then ~ not like today.

It’s a popular name Johnny B. You guys keep referencing the Thermoelectric converter as being connected to Rossi.

Hmm... you may be right about that. I don't have compelling evidence that the Thermoelectric converter Rossi is the same as the Rossi who was convicted several times in Italy for fraud and is now selling E-Cats.

I have the combination of "Dr. Andrea Rossi" and "Leonardo Technologies" company, which strikes me as a unlikely random occurrence. I will look for a more solid link.

However, this doesn't do anything to rehabilitate Rossi, who definitely was convicted for fraud a number of times in Italy and who is now selling E-Cats.

OK, that didn't take long at all.

Question on Rossi's blog that pretends to be a Research Journal:

Army Corps of Engineers report from 2004 says that your previous breakthrough, thermoelectric device that had 20% efficiency instead of the 2-4% efficiency of traditional ones.
http://dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil/library_items/Thermo(2004).pdf
You had demonstration of 100 watt device at University of New Hampshire. Then fire destroyed your Manchester (NH) factory and after that you managed to produce only devices giving out 1 watt. Have you taken this time more backup procedures to conserve the knowledge, so that an accident wont decrease your product’s efficiency permanently by 99%? [LINK]

And Rossi's answer:

Dear Mr Teemu:
Yes, it is true, in 2000 I made a patent application for Seebeck Effect devices to indrease their efficiency and to make possible to use them at high temperature for applications on engines. I sold all the technology and know how of this, as well as I sold all my other activities, to finance the LENR job on which I decided to focus totally my energies. Without this absolute focus no results could have been possible. The experience I have of myself taught me that when I focus exclusively on one thinf I have an efficiency that decreases on logarythmic scale if I make other things in the same time. I do not know the further evolution of my Seebeck Effect research, also if I know that they have been applied to Diesel Engines. Their real improvement in the field was not so much bound to the efficiency, but to the possibility to apply them in the high temperature ranges (up to 800 Celsius degrees). Again, I do not know what happened then. It is true also that a fire destroyed all the material I had: Firemen forced, rightly, to escape immediately while I was trying to save computer, papers etc. It happened in Manchester, N.H. (USA).
Warm regards,
A.R. [LINK]

So, the Rossi from the failed Thermoelectric converter project definitely is the same Rossi now selling E-Cats.

The only remaining unresolved point made in this thread is yours: Whether there is any connection between the Ohio "LTI Global" and Rossi. You have made that link in order to gain the credibility of LTI Global's management (including former Secretary of Energy Robert Gentile), but I don't see any connection other than blog postings making this unwarrented assumption.

If you have any actual evidence of a relationship between Andrea Rossi and the Ohio LTI Global company, please present it.

I referenced bicycles. You want an answer on the GM models? I replaced the master cylinders on my Chevy Van and my son's S10 several times over the years.

They've gotten progressively better but you have to watch out for the way the G20 and older G10s are configured ~ they do the same job but they hook up almost exactly the opposite of the way the other one does.

Yes, the most recent one had reached the stage where it had a titanium casing JUST LIKE you would get on a lockset for a controlled access executive suite restroom. Had one of those break in our office years back. Took a special drill bit my father had given me years ago to bust it up so we could get the door open. You can imagine the anxiety while I cut and cut and cut and it just didn't want to give it up. Titanium casings are pretty tough.

Take a real close look at the valves Rossi lets you see ~ tell me what they are.

I raised this issue with the first photos way earlier last year. He's not just using ordinary plumbing.

Johnny B, the assertion was yours, not mine. I ridiculed the idea that they were the same ~ at the same time the Army report refers to "a subcontractor", and it's the subcontractor who cannot "scale up" the devices ~ not that the devices don't work ~ just that he, whoever he is, can't get it to work.

It is not clear that "the subcontractor" is Rossi's LTI.

NOTE: I was but a young chil' but quite able to read way back in the days when Mechanics Illustrated ran an article about a magic material that turned cold on one side and hot on the other when current was ran through it.

They were more excited about the prospects of instant cool beer cans (since this was a cheaply made bimetal strip). But I recall that not long after the original announcement of that material they were proposing further research into it since maybe you could heat one side and make a current flow.

It was quite some time until practical thermocouple's were devised. So, is it THAT technology Rossi was messing with? Or, is it a different thermocouple technology that LTI (the other LTI) was messing with?

Remember, the recovery of waste heat was supposed to be a big time thing in Obama's "Green Initiatives". I do hope you recall Van Jones, Obama's criminally inclined but otherwise quite the Communist Green Czar? I can find both Van Jones and Leonardo Technologies at the same website ~ http://my.wn.com/search/leadership_in_energy_and_environmental_design?p=200&t=details

So, that gets us pretty close to the criminal class doesn't it. Now, try looking up Rossi and Gentile at this site. Guy there claims they are PARTNERS. Which means Rossi is accessible one step away from Gentile or Van Jones ~ http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/andrea-rossi-breakthrough-to-clean-cheap-energy-through-cold-fusion/

Like to see if that is a true statement ~ 'cause that's the LTI in OHIO!

It is not clear that "the subcontractor" is Rossi's LTI.

Rossi claims that it was he on his blog, as I pointed out in the post to which you replied.

NOTE: I was but a young chil'... (followed by several paragraphs of unrelated blather)

More wacky trolling.

I can find both Van Jones and Leonardo Technologies at the same website

Wow, you are psychotic! That page lists any company that matches the search term "leadership in energy and environmental design". Also, note that the "Leonardo Technologies" referenced on this page is the one in Ohio.

Now, try looking up Rossi and Gentile at this site. Guy there claims they are PARTNERS.

Wow! It isn't even a random blog posting that you're relying on, but an anonymous comment to a random blog posting!

You haven't provided any evidence that the Ohio "LTI Global" has anything to do with Rossi.

I think there is sufficient reason to believe that Rossi intentionally created a company with the same name (in a different state) precisely to create such confusion.

The fact remains that Rossi's "Leonardo Technologies" company is the company that failed to make working TE converts for the Army, and is not the real, substantial Ohio-based company that has the former high-ranking government officials.

Try this one: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/interview-with-energy-catalyzers.html ~ it outlines the big dogs in the Ampenergo deal ~ with the founders of Ampenergo named as Karl Norwood, Richard Noceti, Robert H Gentile and Craig Cassarino.

Robert H. Gentile is the guy with the Ohio based Leonardo Technologies Inc ~ with a current $95 million per year service contract with Department of Energy.

Karl Norwood is the guy who owns the building where Rossi still maintains some sort of New Hampshire presence ~ what that might be is a good question since this is where his "factory" burned down.

The criminal link is Obama through his friend Van Jones to Bob Gentile to these other guys, etc. to Rossi.

Cassarino stands out as a Gambino related "name" with Primo having been an enforcer turned federal witness. He hurt himself a couple of years ago falling off a garbage truck.

So, we have Rossi, Cassarino, Gentile, Noceti, and NORWOOD? Do you see the pattern?

Some of the conflicting information might have to do with OTHER PEOPLE'S need for obscurity.

Try this one

Hmm... OK, that's a link.

Karl Norwood is the guy who owns the building where Rossi still maintains some sort of New Hampshire presence ~ what that might be is a good question since this is where his "factory" burned down.

I recall that you gave me a hard time about that relationship. I pointed out that Norwood and Rossi have shared an office and phone number for at least a couple of years (long before the E-Cat became public).

There are several reasons I think Rossi is a con man: technical, historical and business related. I'm not sure how this fits in, one way or another.

I wish Rossi would just had over an E-Cat to MIT or some other credible organization and let them prove that it really does work (or not).

Add Richard Taylor and Joseph R. D'Este, who is a really close buddy of Noceti.

We could probably put up a board with pictures and approximate position in "the family" on this one ~ just do it like the FBI does it. We could keep track of these guys and find out if they go astray (like scammers might) or if they stay on the straight and narrow so they can keep their hands in that $95 million per year DOE service contract. I assure you they all have somebody watching them ~ because whatever it is they are doing with DOE is highly classified. The amount of the money is chump change ~ they have 14 employees ~ so the "service", whatever it is would be some sort of classified "consulting". They don't DO STUFF..

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